9:00 AM PDT Sunday, April 26, 1987 (Rush C.) Hello...? (Sysop Tony) Hello, Rush. (Rush C.) No one else here yet (Sysop Tony) You're right. (Rush C.) What's the topic for today? I am working on a program with a friend you may or may not find of interest. It is a mail list program that can exchange its files back and forth with 2 versions of the program between a CoCo and M-100. right now we are trying to figure out how to "print" a file from basic and trick the coCo into thinking there is a printer on line and not a terminal. (Sysop Tony) Sounds interesting. I'm not familiar with the Coco environment, but seems like it's about the same as "Saving to COM:" in the M100. (Rush C.) Well The Coco uses its 232 port for both printer and modem, but if you have a null modem cable attached, the CoCo won't recognize it as a printer. I think the pins have to be wired differently for a modem or a printer. (Sysop Tony) Why don't you ask Wayne Day? He's familiar with the Coco. (Rush C.) Probably will, there are a few Cocoists here and they might like the program. it does labels, phone lists, Rolodex, etc. (Sysop Tony) All standard stuff. The difference is the Coco _and_ M100 application. (Rush C.) The best part about it is that a person would not need to have two programs because the program in each computer will handle the same files (Sysop Tony) Same program works in both computers? (Rush C.) Yes, the program is merely modified to run in M-100...but uses identical files. There were more people here on Easter than today.. (Sysop Tony) Maybe a big game today somewhere? (Bill Beeler) Was talking to Phil about the possibilty of using a call to basic from DSKMGR to reenter basic and initiate DIRACC. any comments? (Sysop Tony) I don't have any. Phil? (Phil W) Hmmm... well the intent is to download to TDD by holding phone line while running dskmgr. Not real likely. then too, it requires a hook into Key 8 in DSKMGR (I think) and that one seems to be used by DIRACC. Not a project with Gobs of hope I'm afraid. Now if he were to ask about macros with DIRACC (grin!). (Sysop Tony) Personally, I don't understand why folks keep looking for a way to download to the TDD disk. It's been pretty completely explored in the last year or so, and smarter folks than us have even tried to write ML programs to do it, and haven't been able to. As I understand it, the way it's possible with Disk Power is even a fluke! Works only with the cups. But it does work with the 200/TDD combination. (Bill Beeler) Ok. One other thing that might be of importance is a problem that i had downloading files larger than 8k onto my m100. It seems that when i logged off that all of the ml prgrams would not be workable and would wind up in the strangests places when i tried to load them from ram. also many of the .do files would have a bunch of repaeated nonsense in them. (R Caley) Not important...but with all those CO files, one of the strange places you can visit is Jan 1, 1900 .. (Bill Beeler) exactly (Sysop Tony) Bill, ... (Marty T) [Been there several times myself] (Sysop Tony) if you use multiple CO programs... (Bill Beeler) It seems that when I take the m100... (Sysop Tony) you should also be using a machine language manager program. Ok... you go ahead and finish, and let me know when you're done. (Bill Beeler) apart and wigwiggle the installed(factory) ram chips that It cures the problem! (Sysop Tony) ...to make sure that you load, execute, and remove the programs properly. Bits of code left from one time to the next, or improper clearing can cause random, unwanted, problems; including cold starts. FLIPML in DL7 might be a good program for you to try. Your mention of wiggling the RAM chips would seem to indicate that you have a problem with one or more chips or the sockets they fit in. (Bill Beeler) No problems clearing as only have 1 ml program current, but after downloading a big file it would be corrupted and when trying to loadm the ml would wind up with addresses of 0,7144,6333 and such. (Sysop Tony) I have a glimmer of an idea... it may be that you have so much stuff in your RAM already that when you download the "large file" it pushes your CO image up into the same area that it will eventually execute in. When you attempt to load it, it corrupts itself. (R Caley) I think your glimmer is somewhat like mine. If he has the CO on the menu AND in memory the problem might be what you say. If it were me I would keep the program on the MENU...BUT Clear0,MAXRAM before executing TELCOM as TELCOM is very unforgiving in the ML arena. (Phil W) Bill, you say that you download these files and then load them. Implies you are downloading M/L files, perhaps how are you doing it and how are you loading them? what kind of files are they? (Bill Beeler) Using selfclearing DSKMGR and downloading to an otherwise empty 100. When (on occasion) I download anything over 8k the OM error comes up. (Phil W) [bad chips??] (Bill Beeler) when trying to run DSKMGR inorder to save the currently downloaded files to disk, When trying to load DSKMGR manually the adresses are all messed up and need to cold start to recover. When I try to recover the lost do file after the cold start I sometimes find some displaced ROM in the area of 33000 to 62000. (Sysop Tony) Well, you've got some sort of problem there, that's going to take some hands-on, technical troubleshooting. Doubt that we can come up with anything definitive here. (Phil W) I assume you have 32K in the machine. IF so, and if some of it is NOT RS original memory, I would suspect a bad chip. About the cheapest thing you can do is get some good chips and do a replacement (say from PG Designs, since Peter is pretty fussy about RAM chip quality - if that does not work, take it to RSCC but that will be many more bucks than trying the memrory change-out yourself. (Sysop Tony) Is this a 100 or 102? (Bill Beeler) Was originally a 24k when new but was to ignorant to know if it was my fault or the computers have added an 8k from Node (they're only 25 miles up the road) but the problems seem to correct itself after I open up the machine and move the original two 8k ram chips. the last time i did this I took them all the way out instead of wiggling them so perhaps this might? cure the problem but just wanted it on record incase it might help someone else. (Sysop Tony) Uh huh. The original 24K RAM chips are SOLDERED in, in an original 24K machine so yours was apparently originally an 8K machine that somebody upgraded. However, since you're in the No. Calif area why not ` xontact Bill Templeton, of the Danville Tigers, and attend one of their meetings. There are many technicos there, and if you show them what's happening, maybe someone can figure it out. Bill's User ID number is 75655,1056. (Bill Beeler) ok. Won the computer from a RS dealer grand opening so maybe it was originally 8k but has RS chips in the next two opRAMS that are NOT soldered in. (Sysop Tony) That may be the problem. OK... any more on this question? No? Then it's Slide time! Denny will hold them up to the light while I describe them. I see we have only... (Bill Beeler) Thanks for the help but the connect charges are eating me up bye (Sysop Tony) 1 member here who isn't a sysop-type. I notice we have Doug Pratt here. Hi Doug.... So, you wanna talk about nicads, chargers, and etc.? (pause) I think Doug is monitoring but not listening. So, let's discuss MACMAC... a new version, which patches MACPGM into the MACROS.DO file so you can send the code as a macro. (grin) (Phil W) Huh? But I do have a comment re f-keys... (Sysop Denny) Hmm.. sorta like Lisp (Sysop Tony) well, ga ga ga ga! (Phil W) Yeah! Well... (Sysop Tony) Denny... you remember when all the mag's had "self-modyfying code"? (Phil W) you know the concern with the issue of having the wrong f-key vectors, so change loaders and all. Obvious thing to do is use SHLD (or such) to put them in from the m/l pgrogram each time it runs. That would remove such things as line 20 pokes in XTLMAC.LDR. (Sysop Tony) Refresh my memory on SHLD... what does it do, again? (Phil W) Stor HL direct (to a specified memory location. It would be the fkey locations in BASIC or the TERM vector locations. (Sysop Tony) Allright so what you're proposing, is to have the loader do a poke? Or have the ML code itself change the vector? If the latter, how do you run it the first time? (Phil W) Latter. the first time and every time you just run the M/L code by entering it on the menu. EACH time it will poke the right vectors assuring that they are there. Moreover, you may be able to get it to restore the old vectors at exit (suspect x-tel does this) alas, not all commercial pgms are as caring about our health! (Sysop Tony) OK... I got that part; but how do you run the program the first time, if the vectors aren't already right? .... and if they reset on exit, how would you enter again? I'm missing something here. (Phil W) fkey vectors are not need to run a program from the menu; use the ldr to create the pgm on the menu, as now. Then run the pgm. It is only while IN the program (X-TEL, xtlmac) that you use the f-keys. In the case of low-ram macpgm, you have a different problem as we do with diracc, in that resident pgms are loaded each time so there would have to be a built in refresh loop that you pass through as the pgm does its thing. (Sysop Tony) Yeah... OK. What I see now is a short routine patched ahead of the main program... (Phil W) (resident pgms are loaded ONE time!) (Sysop Tony) entry address, that does a reset of the function key vector. But why go through that loop every time? Why not run it from ORIG the first time, then all future runs, jump into ORIG+n? (ORIG+n = the original ORIG or entry point.) (Phil W) Because some other event (other s/w) could reset the f-keys before you run the next time. I would put in a refresh loop that takes you thru the set loop each time. (Doug Pratt) ?? (Sysop Tony) Well, try it out, and see how it works. No harm in trying it on YOUR machine! (grin) (Phil W) RE DIRACC+MAC? (Sysop Tony) Re any of them. Any more on that idea, Phil? (Phil W) Nope! (Sysop Tony) OK... on to Doug Pratt. ga Doug (Doug Pratt) thanks... I have a real dumb question as you may know I buy up all the used 100s I can find as my work uses them. My personal one has a Chipmunk which I love dearly - recently bought a used one with a TDD 1 and no manual! how does one boot FLOPPY.CO? (Sysop Tony) Now Doug... you KNOW there are no dumb questions. .... Just dumb answers! (grin) (Doug Pratt) hiccup (Sysop Tony) There is a 3-line loader program you have to type in which, when run, loads FLOPPY.CO off the Utility disk, and into RAM. Seems to me we have a file in the DL's somewhere which lists that three liner which the manual calls the "IPL" program. But IPL stands for something else, anyway. (Phil W) Some of the ROMs will boot it automatically, in one way or another SuperROM F7 from menu will boot FLOPPY. UR-2 & Sardine will load and run any program named DOS100.CO on the disk; much easier way to go -- if you have one of those chips in the machine in question. (Doug Pratt) thanks a bunch, guys somewhere in the 24 M100s I'm responsible for, there's a SuperROM (in my PERSONAL M100...chortle) I just want to say I owe you guys a LOT for the tremendous resource M100SIG has been to me. if you ever get interested in model planes call me first! (Sysop Tony) Aw shucks.... (blush) We just do what we can. Any more? (Phil W) [wish he was a diamond merchant!] (Doug Pratt) hee hee that's it, thanks! (Sysop Denny) Doug, I think we declined to put the IPL program for FLOPPY here in the DL's since it is a copyrighted program. Or published at least. (Sysop Tony) You may be right. We do have the info on how to load the TDD-2 version since it's a one-liner. But I recall the question coming up about the one in the manual being copyrighted. (Doug Pratt) no problem - I'll use SuperROM. forgot it did that since I use the Munk and I'll tell you, I've developed some interesting procedures for using the Munk, 256k of PGD Ram and Super ROM at once! It made the book manuscript I just finished a lot easier. (Sysop Tony) Ah! Another writer votes for the Chipmunk! (Doug Pratt) loud and often! (Sysop Tony) If you expect any extensive use of the model you have with the TDD, suggest you get one of the alternate DOS's for it, which will give you similar capabilities to the Chipmunk. i.e. writing to and from the disk in BASIC, etc. More than just file saving and loading from a menu. (Doug Pratt) thanks yes, that's in the plan. you see, I work for an association of model fliers, our executive staff is all over the US and we use ModelNet for corporate communication. when I evaluated machines to give to non-computer types so they could use the Net, the M100 won hands down, so my more sophisticated users get the peripherals as they learn to handle them. thanks for the help, troops. (Sysop Tony) Have you seen the file DISKOS.INF in DL13? (Doug Pratt) yup (Sysop Tony) good place to start exploring the various DOS's. (J.D.) Doug, don't know which OS you're leaning toward but it's worth noting the Acroatix's POWR-DOS will be discounted heavily (currently talking about 50% + discount) to Club 100 members so perhaps that could count in your decision. (Sysop Tony) Power-DOS seems to be the "heaviest" DOS for the TDD. In the sense of most capability. Do they have a TDD-2 version available, JD? (J.D.) Tony, I am not certain. I believe they said they do, but would have to check. (Sysop Tony) There hasn't been any comment around here yet as to which companies were going to support the TDD-2. So we don't have any idea. Ed Geise of Acroatics has not been around here lately. (J.D.) Tony, I met yesterday with Richard Eckerlin and Hugo Ferryera of UltraSoft at the Montreal M100 User Group meeting. A TDD-2 version of Disk Power is in the works with new features, but the original... (Phil W) [Hugo lives!] (J.D.) version works with the TDD-2, as has been reported here. Works nicely, actually, as it keeps the whole disk as one bank. Also, hasn't Traveling already announced a TDD-2 version of TS-DOS (but not TS-RANDOM)? Believe that's the currentest information. (Sysop Tony) Yup... that one we know about. But no word from Acroatics, Traveling, or others. If Traveling has one, they haven't mentioned it here. I have a version of TS-RANDOM, but no TDD-2 to try it on. (Phil W) There is a TS-DOS for the TDD2. And I believe Sardine supports it too. Latest TS-DOS runs with either, I think but not interested in TDD2 so I have not followed up. (Sysop Tony) That's just it... we aren't getting many new product description files lately. Perfunctory presence is all; seems like they've all given up on direct online support. (J.D.) Tony, want Product sections from Laptop User posted? (Sysop Tony) That would be Super! Yes.... what do we hafta do? (J.D.) It's done. Just lemme put a "posted by permission" notice on 'em @Zd I'll upload 'em myself. Also reviews, listings if you wish. We're sending disks to several local BBSs and user groups too. We all gain if we increase access to information. So just let me know what you want. (ADAM SCULL) JUST SPOKE TO TS...THEY SAID RANDOM DOESN'T WORK ON TDD2 YET (Sysop Tony) E V E R Y T H I N G ! (J.D.) [ n o t e d ] (Sysop Tony) Great! DL13 is the place for the product descriptions. Be sure to note the stuff came from Laptop User. (Sysop Tony) (Thanks, Adam) (Sysop Tony) OK BTW, I FINALLY received the missing issue #1. you remember, the one you sent by Camel-pack! (grin) (J.D.) [no need to mention that we musta lost an address; bad for the image, no?] Anybody else having trouble receiving magazine? (Sysop Tony) No... not a lost address, just a verrrrrry slooooooooow postal truck. (Sysop Denny) No, J.D. - I now am the proud owner of TWO copies. (J.D.) Due to receiving various mailing lists from various sources at various times, we didn't have time to merge before mailing issue #1 we've heard from folks who have received three copies. I think that's all taken care of. We just mailed issue #2 last week, and the whole list is said to be merged. NEW TOPIC: Anybody remember who it was who asked about changing the Tab in TEXT from an ASCII 9 to five ASCII 32s? Next issue includes a few bytes of m/l code to solve the problem. Also fixes the DATE bug and adds a few new screen and keyboard functions. I'd like to make sure the person with the question doesn't miss out now that we've answered it. (Sysop Tony) No. ... Phil _might_ be able to locate the original message. but it's been a while. Usually that sort of info, "Who", only sticks in the mind if a thread develops. (Phil W) Nifty -- more m/l is always good! When was the msg (about) and to who? (ADAM SCULL) QUESTION! CAN SXM SUPPORT THE WORLDPORT 1200 MODEM? (J.D.) Okay. It's a hot little utility that scans the keyboard and then stuffs code into the keyboard buffer. Also lets you view time, date, day of week... (Sysop Tony) (Just a minute Adam, and Denny can answer that.) (J.D.) from within TEXT and TELCOM and BASIC (and many applications), some other stuff. Don't remember who the message was addressed to (a fair bet it was to SYSOP or ALL). (Sysop Tony) My guess is "All". Sounds like an adaptation of the code being developed for the macros program a substitute scanning routine, looking for the call key. Let's let Denny deal with Adam's question, then return to this if interested. Denny? (Sysop Denny) ok Adam... (ADAM SCULL) YES (Sysop Denny) SXM does not have any provision for use with any external modem as of yet... (ADAM SCULL) SXM..CAN IT SUPPORT THE WORLDPORT 1200 CURIOUS IF THERE WILL BE (Sysop Denny) but that sounds like an interesting project. There is only support for the internal modem. (Sysop Tony) Adam... (ADAM SCULL) IT WOULD BE GREAT TO HAVE AN XMODEM (Sysop Tony) It helps if you wait until someone is finished before you go ahead. (ADAM SCULL) SORRRY, THIS IS NEW TO ME (Sysop Tony) XMODEM.312 supports an external modem. ga (pause) (Now you can go ahead, Adam) ga Any more, Adam? (ADAM SCULL) ILL JUST LISTEN FOR NOW, BUT THANKS! (Sysop Denny) Unfortunately, XMODEM.312 only supports a Smartcat modem. the commands are different than normal Hayes. (Sysop Tony) Ah! Then we need a merge file to convert XMODEM.312 to work with the Hayes-type's. (Sysop Denny) Yes, that would be nice Since you suggested it...Tony? (Sysop Tony) Well, I'll look around. I've already done a bunch of modifications to good old .312. One more isn't impossible. OK, Adam? Any more questions on that? ga Adam ga (ADAM SCULL) NO, I JUST HOPE THAT ONE DAY I CAN FIND A WORLDPORT TO WORK IN XMODEM, BUT THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN ENLIGHTNING (Sysop Tony) OK... Charles is up next But Phil's comment first. (We always take comments before questions) (Phil W) Denny, can you mod qport to make it run xmodem.312 after dialing? ooops -- no DT! (Sysop Tony) I'll look into that, Phil. (QPORTX.100?) (CHARLES CULHANE) charles c. anyone out there use mod 100 with scripsit 100 and epson printer? (Phil W) I did long ago 2+V-,$VKWr you) (Phil W) what [oHthe question? (CHARLES CULHANE) i am trying to find out how to send printer commands to mod 100 through epson printer to underline and bold. no luck so far. (Sysop Tony) (Charles, type shorter lines so we know you're there) (Phil W) There is a file on that called EMBED.TXT... (CHARLES CULHANE) ok, tnx (Phil W) in DL 2. ... (CHARLES C}iULHANE) tnx. but can it be done just with epson control codes? (Phil W) you will also be advised to read SCPSIT.THD in DL4. Yes... it is FOR epson codes. Note that SCPSIT does not support codes ... (CHARLES CULHANE) ok tnx much ok tnx (Phil W) internally (as far as I recall). You have to use a CTRL-P to embed them. See the file. (Sysop Tony) Any more on that, Charles? (CHARLES CULHANE) i have y i have tried the Cont P but no luck making it function so far. (Sysop Tony) Well, it's a simple... (Phil W) Yes there are problems. EMBED.TXT has solutions. (Sysop Tony) and standard proceedure. (CHARLES CULHANE) ok tnx much. (Phil W) [it is the chr$(0) issue] (Sysop Tony) OK. Let me remind you new folks to read the two files in DL1 NEWCO.HLP and CONFER.HLP which provide information on the new Conference commands, protocols, etc. Lots of good information there. Well, it looks like we're out of time for this morning's conference. So I'll end the formal conference now. Feel free to stick around and chat further, if you like. Thanks for coming this morning, we appreciate your input. Bye. *** END OF CONFERENCE *** List of Participants: 70526,111 Lee Levitt 71266,125 Phil W 72300,3072 Bill H. 72316,647 R Caley 73007,2774 STEPHEN MCGAUGHEY 73247,264 Larry B. 73717,2674 J.D. 73720,326 Marty T 76120,133 RAY P 76120,2244 CHARLES CULHANE 76537,765 Bill Beeler 76672,147 ADAM SCULL 76703,444 Sysop Denny 76703,3041 Doug Pratt 76703,4062 Sysop Tony 76703,4311 Eiji