9:00 AM PDT Sunday, May 3, 1987 (Sysop Tony) Good Morning all.... shall we get started? (R Caley) yes! (Rob D) How about new products? The silence from the vendors such as PCSG, Holmes, to a lesser extent Traveling, has been deafening. (Sysop Tony) Yes, that's true. Holmes dropped out over a year ago. PCSG seems to have "cooled it" lately. Traveling is sporadic. ... UltraSoft just announced a new forum rep. And Acroatics is among the missing. Laptop User Magazine however has just started uploading reviews and new product descriptions from the magazine for us. (R Caley) ok Travelin is always doing R&D. Giese and acroatix moved to New Hampshire...but still there. (David K) thanks, tony Can anyone tell me what the diiferences are between the "old" 100 and the 102 besides the obvious appearance difference? (Sysop Tony) There are a number. Principle of which, in my mind, at least is the fact that it's not directly upwards compatible from the Model 100. Whatever peripherals you bought for the 100 will probably not work with the 102. There is also a file in DL8 102.DIF. (David K) was not aware of that file, will look into it...thanks, tony. (Tom S) Is there a way to connect the 600 to a TV as monitor? would be a great asset when traveling. (Sysop Tony) No. It was not designed to support video. (Tom S) Heard rumor about MS-DOS portable on the way...any truth? (Sysop Tony) There are some MS-DOS portables already available. But I guess you mean, "on the way from Tandy"? They are playing that question, sort of cagey, but have indicated we shouldn't be surprised, that's the way the market is going. (Tom S) yes? I had heard about one from Toshiba as well. I think that I have just figured out what "ga" means. (Sysop Tony) ("ga" means, "I am finished, go ahead") (R Caley) OK... Tandy may well continue its "me too" attitude and develop a MSDOS Laptop, However, when they had the chance they opted not to do so. I think they ought to develop a ROM chip with MSDOS for the 600 to put in place of multiplan or BASIC. That way, you don't have to pay for it if you don't want it. (Sysop Tony) There was some discussion of producing a ROM for the 600 with MS-DOS in it. But it never came to pass. Tandy is well-known for shooting itself in the foot then denying it had other plans. (Tom S) Has anyone had any experience with the Toshiba MS-DOS portable? (Sysop Tony) Yes, several folks. Phil Wheeler has, he's just joined us. (Rob D) We have both the Toshiba 1100+ and the NEC Multi-Speed at work. (Phil W) Yes -- I've been using one extensively for abut 3 months,if there is a specific question, we can deal with that of course, there have been many reviews in the press and in the IBMHW forum there is a good one. (Tom S) Just wanted to know any drawbacks that you had experienced? (Phil W) Well... it does not have a hard disk, keyboard is a bit different than standard (but not a problem) seems to run all software (except one BIOS pgm I wrote!) My main reason for choice was size (smallest PC-compatible laptop) and the way the screen opens (means it will work on airplane tray tables) and battery (8 hrs on a charge, measured). (Sysop Tony) Any more questions, Tom? (Tom S) No, but that's real helpful info. Standing by. (Phil W) Since we are on the subject the comparison with a M100 (my other portable) it's interesting I still use the M100 more than the Tosh (after an initial newness period). Of course, the tosh is neat for telcom (larger screen) and I use it with Wordstar for big files (meaning where I am writing or integrating a big document) But the M100 is so much more handier for day-to-day stuff like SIGing and writing memos, particularly with the 8 banks of RAM it has. And it travels much much better. I really doubt that I will ever be without it. Both serve rather unique needs very well. (Sysop Tony) OK.... thanks. - Maybe we need to coalesce the vapors of all that and do a file comparing the two, since the question comes up often. (Phil W) [Hmmm..implies hot air?] (grin) [yes, good idea] (Sysop Tony) (From the film by Mel Brooks.... History of the World, Part 1: Coalescing the vapors of human existence... i.e. "a comedian") (Dana H.) Is there any way to get around the problem of not being able to embed an ascii zero in a text file? (Sysop Tony) Yes. ga Phil, let's see if you have the same thing to say, that I would. (Phil W) Well, maybe -- there is a file in DL2, called EMBED.TXT that deals with that. (Dana H.) Unlike Epson, the Tandy printers don't offer substitute control codes. I'll check it out. Anyone got a hold of the new acoustic cups yet? My RS cc says they're still back in the warehouse. (Phil W) Ummm..nothing on the cups; been watching for them, too. (Sysop Tony) OK.... I guess I missed a line there. Didn't see Phil's naming of the file EMBED.TXT in DL2. But anyway, the problem is twofold First, you can't put CHR$(0) in a TEXT file, even though the manual implies you can, by describing the pause key as CHR$(0). It may be that a program that gets keyboard input via an INKEY statement would catch CHR$(0), and include it, but i doubt it. The standard technique is to use a graphic character CHR$(128) (GRAPH-small p), and set your printer for 7-bit data flow. This changes the 128 to a zero. Unfortunately, that brings you to problem #2; The Tandy printers don't like that. What was it I said earlier about Tandy shooting itself in the foot? As for the acoustic cups, everybody is still waiting. (Tom S) where is the current best buy for Basic and memory chips for the 600? (Sysop Tony) There are only two companies selling RAM expansion units for the Tandy 600. They are listed in the file EXPAND.600 in DL11. BASIC ROM is only available from Tandy. (Tom S) Thanks standing by. (Sysop Tony) OK. There's very few of us here this morning, so it's open topic. Anyone have anything they particularly want to discuss? (Dana H.) I think the improved weather has gotten everybody outside today I liked to try using the cups outdoors with my cordless phone! Sometimes works rather well. (Sysop Tony) I believe it was Thom Hartmann currently in Germany, whose company explored the idea of marketing a cordless phone with a connector to connect to the Model 100. He described sitting at the pool, communicating away... So it's not impossible. I imagine that you could do it even with one of those two-way headsets that Radio Shack sells for about $50. All you'd need... (Dana H.) It's a little touchy, but does function! (Sysop Tony) would be matching input and output jacks. Good idea for an article somewhere. (I'd go direct, avoiding the cups) (Dana H.) They now offer a connector kit for use with the Tandy cellular phone however, you've got to get the "hands-free" kit first. (Sysop Tony) I always avoid "connector kits" and stuff like that because you can make your own, so much cheaper. I used to have a phone in the car, and wanted a push to talk button mounted on the steering wheel. (before the days of duplex and cellular phones...) Cost: $300. I did it for about $5. (Dana H.) Are there any commercially available kits for converting the modem to auto-answer and ring detection? (Sysop Tony) Not any more. There was one company in San Diego who made a cable with the circuit built in. ... Eiji got one, but they went out of business. However, it's so simple, anyone can do it. We've talked several folks through the process. And the basic diagram has been published several times. (Dana H.) Yeah> I've got the 2/86 issue of P100. (Sysop Tony) Well, if that's the one that has a diagram, that's how to do it. (Dana H.) I'm interested in trying. I understand that there are some good BBS programs in the DL. (Sysop Tony) Detecting the ringing phone is relatively easy. There are at least a half dozen ways of doing it. One of the easiest is a capacitor and a relay. But the technicos like to use the latest circuitry and sometimes make an easy job more difficult. See the file RING.DET in DL8 for some additonal information. (Dana H.) Thanks much. (Phil W) In the area of modems Ive gone against the "all in one package" principle. I use a WorldPort 1200 with my Toshiba -- and the same one with my Model 100 for 1200 baud operation. Cheaper, and a bit more flexible and it will provide all the autoanswer needs. (Sysop Tony) Right. There are several external modems with auto answer capability. and that would be my choice, were I going to set up a BBS. As Phil knows, I often forget and leave my modem online, and it answers the phone before I do. (Phil W) I mean cheaper than buying an internal modem for the tosh. And in some cases better! one of the big hassles right now with the NEC Multispeed is that their internal modem does not work well at 1200 baud. Solutioni s to get an external instead. (Dana H.) Speaking of 1200 baud, someone mentioned that the real effective speed is about 600 bps with the M100 because ofthe lcd. (Phil W) True (Tony mentioned it, I think). But for xmodem downloads that is not an issue (no screen stuff) and Denny's QHAYES (et al) lets you lock the scroll for ascii capture downloads. (Sysop Tony) Yes, I think Tony documented that in the file 1200BD.PGM in DL3. And I don't recall ever seeing it before that. (Dana H.) Incidentally, how come the 200's screen seems so much faster? (Phil W) [what does 1200bd.pgm do?] (Sysop Tony) Same problem with the Tandy 600! (Sysop Tony) Phil: 1200BD was the first COM program to do auto logon with an external 1200 baud modem, and discussed the differences between 100 and 200 screen speeds. No solution, just discussion. .... (grin) Dana, the 200 screen refresh rate is faster and can keep up with 1200 baud quite nicely. I've tested it and it seems to be able to handle about 1500 baud. (Phil W) [LCD technology?] (Sysop Tony) I think it was a hardware solution. I _think_ in the 100, it was done by the CPU while in the 200 it's done by it's own CPU. But that's not definitive, you understand. (Phil W) well 1200 baud scroll on the 100 would probably be too fast to read anyway! (Sysop Tony) Well, you get used to it. reading every other line, or so. Sort of like speed reading. (Phil W) [time to discuss "tera" (grin)] (Sysop Tony) Did you check my Factorials file? (Phil W) [only up to 200,231 so far] (Peter T) Sure love my new PGD expansion module. Thanks for the advice Phil! (Sysop Tony) No! You missed it! (Phil W) Ah but wait 'til you get 8 banks! (Peter T) [Tempting!] (Sysop Tony) In the file remarks, I said that the model 100 was limited for factorials up to 48.9 only. (Phil W) [Meant the result; but I have not actually run it yet!] (Sysop Tony) Shucks, Denny's here. Now we can't talk about him. (any more!) (Phil W) What was that about Qport is passe? (Sysop Tony) PhD, is pronounced "Fudd". Doctor of Philosohy, as opposed to an RD -- "Real Doctor". (grin) (Phil W) Hmmmm..libelous stuff! (Sysop Tony) Qport? Qport? I don't remember any Qport! (Phil W) Son of Qhayes. (Sysop Tony) We was talking about my pioneering efforts with 1200BD.PGM. (grin) (Sysop Denny) Ok guys, give me a break. (Sysop Tony) A cat's a cat, and that's that! (Phil W) what can we break him with? (Sysop Tony) This is dwindling away into nothingness. (Phil W) So is Denny's cattery, his wife says... (Dana H.) Any more on the resurrection of P100 and Camden Communications? I still cherish my collection of Portable 100. (Sysop Tony) There is continuing discussion on the message board. Doesn't look like Camden is gonna pull it off. CW communications is interested in buying them, and posted a query on the board asking for feedback. Phil captured all the messages, and they're currently in DL13 as P100-A.THD, and P100-B.THD. (Phil W) ditto! (Sysop Tony) I knew it! Took the words right out of his mouth. Anyway, it seems that the current CEO of CW Communications is the same James Povec who started P100, and provided such terrible service the first two years of it's life. Now he wants to know if we'll all subscribe to it again, if he buys it back. ---- No answer on whether he intends to honor the unfilled subscriptions. ... (Phil W) [silence is its own reply!] (Sysop Tony) Also, It appears that if he's reading the responses, he selectively erases some of the messages. (Phil W) he did read them. (Dana H.) Thanks for the info. I would still like to see a magazine devoted to laptops like that one was. (Sysop Tony) I think that the new Laptop User magazine, which is free, is gonna fill the niche formerly occupied by Portable 100, and we no longer need the Portable 100 group. (Sysop Denny) ok; I was wondering about that, Phil, Do all the messages have the little (X) by them? (Phil W) Yes -- and all the erased messages (only a few, actually, were) are in the THD files, because I dump daily. (Sysop Tony) Let me clarify a point re Laptop User & Portable 100. As I understand it, the best month P100 ever had they mailed out about 25,000 copies. The FIRST month for Laptop User, they mailed out about 50,000 copies! Being a free magazine, they will naturally have a much larger subscriber base, which is what advertisers need/want. So it has a greater chance of success than P100, who was constantly crying poverty. (Phil W) I think P100 was an excellent magazine, and still could be, but they have created so much ill will that I don't think they can ever recover. Unfortunate, but there it is. They would really have to be viewed as a totally new publication if they started again and they would be better off with a new name, too. For my part it is hard to consider paying for something if there is a free alterantive (Laptop User). I would (in any case) buy it at the newstand until they had proven they were really here to stay, this time. And that would (if the usual reaction) prevent them from making it. (Sysop Tony) I agree completely that P100 was the absolute best source of print support for the Model 100 family. .... Everyone else was either too skimpy, or not specific enough. I think we're going to get the same kind of coverage that used to be in P100 in Laptop User. So why bother with P100? I'm certainly not going to send them any more money. (Phil W) Big advantage of a subscriber supported mag is resposiveness to subscribers, I would think. P100 had zero! (well maybe a pico-bit! grin). (Sysop Tony) Or a nano bit. By the way... wanna get into that in a minute. But, Sorry Curtis, I missed your Q. Must have been busy typing. ga Curtis (Curtis G) Anyone know where I can get a new or used M-100? (Sysop Tony) Ha Ha Ha. They're snapped up as soon as they become available! (Phil W) [msg a day or two ago] (Sysop Tony) Watch section 14 on the message board, and reply IMMEDIATELY! Cause they're in BIG demand, now that folks have discovered the 102 is not upward compatible. (Curtis G) Thanks Tony (Sysop Tony) OK.... Doug Pratt, a member here buys every one he can get his hands on. (Sysop Denny) Well it finally happened - My Chipmunk batteries have given up the ghost. Tony, have you had this problem yet? (Sysop Tony) No. Glenn (at Holmes Engineering) told me that overcharging is the principle cause of failure. They gotta be charged, then drained, charged, then drained. ... (Phil W) [retrofit it with alkalines?] (Sysop Tony) Leaving them in "float charge" condition wipes them out. Eiji had a failure, though. (Curtis G) I keep my two chip's on chg almost all of the time and have had no problems one unit is approx two years old. (Sysop Tony) Phil, Insufficient power, me thinks. That motor draws a whole lot of current. But Curtis, that's what's been identified as the cause of the failures. And many of us have had them for two years now. And it's just now showing up. I'd advise you to change your operating technique. (Phil W) TWo things on this -- aside is that I'm suprised we have not had more memory backup nicads going out. And -- will it run off the AC now, Denny? (Sysop Denny) I tried printing out the index and it just hangs after a couple of pages and that is with AC connected So I'm kinda hung up now. I'll have to order some batteries and install them myself. (Curtis G) Back to the Batts.. once in use for short duration of use over long periods of time they must be reconditioned by totally draining and then recharging, doing this several times will restore them for a longer life of use. (Sysop Tony) Actually, most of us already know that. But it's a question of using the Chipmunk on AC all the time that seems to cause the battery failure problem. Phil, as i read the schematic, the internal nicad is back biased, so it is virtually never drained. And apparently isn't charged either, it's just charged if it has been drained. (Phil W) The Toshiba 1100+ manual says words like the NiCad pack will last for the life of the computer. Makes me wonder what will fail first, battery pack or something else! (Sysop Tony) That sounds overly optomistic. (Curtis G) The only time I have ever had a problem is when there was a problem with the charger no output or low output. (Sysop Denny) [Part of the 'Disposable Society'] (Dana H.) Planned obsolescence!! just like that Rom chip by Sharp that limits the M100's calendar to 1999! (Sysop Tony) By Sharp? Whatcha mean, there? ... (Leonard E.) [huh!?] (Sysop Tony) Thought the ROM code was developed by MicroSoft. (Phil W) [someone will write an M/L pgm to fix that, maybe] (Dana H.) They made the M100 Rom chip, copyright by Microsoft. (Sysop Tony) Oh! You mean Sharp actually burned the ROM's? (Dana H.) That's right. Just look inside! (Sysop Tony) Humph! Didn't know that. Thanks. Somebody ought to look at their complete Disassembly of the M100 ROM and find out why the calendar is limited to 1999, Denny. (Dana H.) By the way, do the 200 and 600 have similar limits? (Sysop Tony) I never looked. ga Denny. I'll drop offline and see. (Sysop Denny) Well, I don't see any real problem because of the date bug ... (Sysop Tony) Yes. (Sysop Denny) my calender scrolls around to year 0 with no problem (Phil W) [Toshiba is not so limited] (Sysop Denny) ... you'll just have to consider 1900 as 2000 and adjust programs to reflect that. ... (Phil W) [software challenge, Denny!] (Sysop Denny) Are we going to have these computers in 13 years?? (Sysop Tony) The 200 has the same calendar problem. I understand only the last two digits of the year are stored in memory, the 19 comes from the ROM. (Leonard E.) Well, as far as I can tell, the *only* place that the '19xx' ... (Sysop Tony) (Gee, I hope so...) (Leonard E.) format is used is on the menu.! And yes, the year does *not* come from the clock chip. Totally controlled by ROM code. (Sysop Tony) Anybody? (Phil W) ["hayashi saves a byte"] (Sysop Tony) (catchy...) (Dana H.) Only one more thing: This support group really makes having a M100 worthwhile. Thanks very much. (Sysop Tony) Well, we try to make it worth while. It's a team effort, and the guys on the team ... (Phil W) [Shucks!] (Sysop Tony) deserve a vote of thanks for their work. ... (Curtis G) Here here !!! (Sysop Tony) They, who shall remain nameless, contribute much, receive little. Thanks, guys. You know who you are. (grin) (Sysop Tony) (I think we've got a GREAT team!) (Leonard E.) Update on the XMDM25 wierdness... Dave tried the dl on his 100 and got a good copy. The original was done on a 1000 which seems to have been responsible for the DS. (though d*mned if I know why) (Sysop Tony) Yeah... I followed that thread, because of the problem we had with line 78. (Phil W) Why the '25' in the name? (Sysop Denny) [v 2.5] (Sysop Tony) (Cause it works at 25 baud? (grin)) (Leonard E.) it'll be 26 after the next change! (Phil W) [so where is 2.0, 2.4, etal?] (Leonard E.) versions before 2.5 were never uploaded and "died" a year of more ago. (Tom S) As you have guessed, I'm new at this, had trouble locating the DL file referenced earlier today DL11 EXPAND.600 the HELP command throws me back to a former file or out to CIS. (Sysop Tony) Hmmmm... (Phil W) [does not exist;EXPAND.100] (Sysop Tony) I'm sure I wrote it. I _think_ it's there. Lists the two companies that sell RAM expansion modules for the 600. Let me check, and I'll leave you a message. OK? (Tom S) Thanks..I also could not pull up DL 2 EMBED.TXT. (HOLT HOPKINS) CAN I ASK SOMETHING (Sysop Tony) It too is there. Get into DL2, and use the command BRO EMBED. That should get it. go ahead, Holt (HOLT HOPKINS) WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PORTABLE 100 MAGAZINE? (Phil W) [nothin like that in dl11] (Sysop Tony) They died. ... (HOLT HOPKINS) THANKS (Sysop Tony) They keep saying they want to ressurect the magazine, and some other company wants to buy it. ... (Phil W) [Zombie?] (Sysop Tony) Don't count on either. Get a free subscription to Laptop User instead.!!! ... (Curtis G) HOW ? (Sysop Tony) Read the files P100-A.THD & P100-B.THD in DL13. Curtis, see the file MAG.100 in DL13. Well, we're overtime this morning ... (Curtis G) Thanks (Sysop Tony) Well, it looks like we're out of time for this morning's conference. So I'll end the formal conference now. Feel free to stick around and chat further, if you like. Thanks for coming this morning, we appreciate your input. Bye. *** END OF CONFERENCE *** (Phil W) [musta been a macro!] (Sysop Tony) Always is! List of Participants: 70137,3551 David K 70465,203 Leonard E. 71266,125 Phil W 71676,66 HOLT HOPKINS 72316,647 R Caley 72527,765 DANA ROBERT HYDE 73720,326 Marty T 75515,1757 Rob D 75725,1130 Curtis G 76012,3532 Peter T 76672,606 Tom S. 76701,40 Sysop Denny 76703,4062 Sysop Tony