(18,Sysop Denny) Well Transcript, it's just you and me again. (sigh) (18,Peter T.) Mornin! (18,Sysop Denny) Hi Peter. (18,Peter T.) Hi Denny. Early arrivals I guess. (18,Sysop Denny) We might be starting a little late as our guest has a prior commitment that might go overtime a little. Yes, you are about 2 minutes early. :) (18,Peter T.) Ah so. Have you seen the brochure on the new 1400LT? (18,Sysop Denny) No, us sysops are the last to know. (18,Peter T.) Oh well. (18,Sysop Denny) I'm on every Tandy mailing list, though. Hi Tony. (18,Sysop Tony) If no one has any pressing questions, we might as well close this conference early, and save you all some connect charges. (grin) 8:59:54 AM PDT Sunday, August 2, 1987 (18,Sysop Tony) Send a "Q" to get in speaking lineup to ask a question or change topic; Send a "C" to comment on the current topic (18,mike a) hello all... just got here. is Peter speaking today? (18,Sysop Tony) Not yet, he isn't. He'll be delayed. (18,mike a) had a question for him about the vault... I am currently using one (18,Sysop Tony) Are you finished, Mike? ga (18,mike a) yes (18,Sysop Tony) It's customary to type "ga" when finished, so we don't all wait for your next line. (18,mike a) sorry, ga (18,Sysop Tony) When Peter gets here, you can ask him. (18,Sysop Denny) Mike, I have one too, I might be able to help you in the meantime. (18,mike a) ok , I'm done for now ok... unit came with note that rom version is not the finaly one. only 32k files supported... any idea when the updates will be available? (18,GEORGE RICHARDSON) HELP (18,Sysop Tony) (George, type a slash before the word HELP) (18,Sysop Denny) Well, in talking to Peter last night, he said "next week", but he should really answer that one. (18,mike a) ok. otherwise no complaints about it at all. works great! (18,Sysop Denny) (speak of the devil!) Hi Peter! (18,PETER G) HI DENNY (18,rowlfe) Tony, did you get the info I emailed recently? (18,Sysop Tony) No, rowlfe, you probably sent it to my old number. .... (18,Skip M.) Is this the right place for the firmware conference? (18,Sysop Tony) Well, now that Peter is here, Welcome to the forum, Peter. Would you like to make any opening statement? (18,PETER G) Yes if it will work didnt try last night (18,Sysop Tony) go ahead, Peter, you have the floor. (18,Skip M.) Just trying to figure out where I am. Is this the firmware conference? (18,Sysop Tony) Yes skip. (18,PETER G) First I'd like to Thank Denny for inviting me to be a guest on the conference today. I'd like to start with the Formal SIG announcement of our 2 new products supporting the Tandy Portable market. #1:"VAULT" Tandy M102 Memory Expansion (256k-1Meg) The features of the "VAULT" are Std ram 256k expandable to 1Meg in 32k incerments. The memory is Continous memory and any file may be as big as memory. Other features are 4 ROM slots, 2 Std Rom slots, 2-Molex Rom slots. The "VAULT" will add only 3/8 inch in a new plastic injected molded cover. ... (Pause) (18,BRENDA CRAWFORD) HELP (18,Sysop Tony) (Brenda, type a slash before the word HELP) Hmmmm... we got only part of that last one, Peter. (18,Sysop Denny) (Well, it looks like it didn't work) (18,Sysop Tony) Hang on folks, we lost Peter. (18,PETER G) HI IM BACK DIDNT LIKE THAT (18,Sysop Tony) Hi again. .. Patience, folks, Peter is not used to our system. Peter, we didn't get all of that last part... (18,PETER G) LETS TRY THAT AGIAN (18,Sysop Tony) about the plastic molded case. ga Peter. (18,PETER G) I will send it agian ok First I'd like to Thank Denny for inviting me to be a guest on the conference today. I'd like to start with the Formal SIG announcement of our 2 new products supporting the Tandy Portable market. #1:"VAULT" Tandy M102 Memory Expansion (256k-1Meg) The features of the "VAULT" are Std ram 256k expandable to 1Meg in 32k incerments. The memory is Continous memory and any file may be as big as memory. Other features are 4 ROM slots, 2 Std Rom slots, 2-Molex Rom slots. The "VAULT" will add only 3/8 inch in a new plastic injected molded cover. All memory is backed up by a 3v lithium battery. #2:"SAFE" M100/102 M200 NEC Electronic ROM Adapter. The "SAFE" is an Electronically Switchable ROM Adapter. it has 8 ROM slots 4-Molex slots, 4- Std slots. All ROM can swith to each other electronically this allows programs to as big as 256k in size. One multi Rom application set has been announced Sardine+ a 40k word Spell Checker with Tword. The "SAFE" is a slim 1" Tapered plastic case that slips into the holes in the bottom of the computer case. Any question you may have on these products or any of our other products or question on M100/102 M200 in general I'd be happy to try and answer. (18,Sysop Tony) OK.... ga Brian (18,BRIAN PROWS) GOOD MORNING! IS IT MY TURN? (18,Sysop Tony) Yes, Brian, we're waiting for your question. go ahead. (18,BRIAN PROWS) Thanks. I'm new to this conference; so please forgive my use of the system. My question relates to cost, which may have already been discussed. How do we use the new device? and how does it compare to the costs of other memory upgrades? ... (Pause) (18,Sysop Tony) Are you through, Brian? (18,BRIAN PROWS) yes (18,Sysop Tony) Folks, please type "ga" when finished, so we can move on, .... (18,BRIAN PROWS) ga (18,Sysop Tony) not waiting for your next sentence. ga Peter ga (Note that most "ga"'s are edited out of the transcript - ed. note) (18,BRIAN PROWS) What is the cost of the unit? (18,PETER G) missed part of question bad send. (18,BRIAN PROWS) What is the cost of the new unit? (18,Sysop Tony) Peter, what is the cost of the Vault? (18,PETER G) ok 256k $549 1meg $909 32k upgrades $20. (18,BRIAN PROWS) Why do these upgrades cost so much? (18,BRIAN PROWS) hello? (18,Sysop Tony) Peter? (18,BRIAN PROWS) How can we as tandy 100 use (18,Sysop Tony) Brian, hold on a minute.... Peter, did you have an answer on that? (18,PETER G) did he ask how m100 users can use it? (18,Sysop Tony) Peter, he asked how come these products cost so much. (18,PETER G) development cost and plastic tooling and we are using the lowest power chip tech. (18,BRIAN PROWS) Peter? (18,Sysop Tony) And I would assume that these units are virtually custom made. (18,Sysop Tony) Brian, you've had two questions.... (18,BRIAN PROWS) Yes (18,Sysop Tony) and there are others waiting. If you have more, we'll put you back in the lineup, but it's time to move on. (18,BRIAN PROWS) No. Go ahead. Fine. (18,PETER G) this unit was custom designed. (18,mike a) peter... I have been using my new vault for about a week. Unit functions beautifully! the rom shipped with the unit was not the final version however. when will we see the 256k file supprot verion? (18,PETER G) mike thanks for the support ... (18,mike a) did you get my question about the rom? (18,PETER G) we are working on the change to get 256k 1meg files this is due to exp rom out know is the limit. (? - ed.) (18,mike a) when is it expected? (18,PETER G) we are working out some problem with exp rom we want to ship all changes at once about 1-1.5 weeks. (18,mike a) thanks peter... all done (18,rowlfe) Hi, Peter. 1st, Ive been using your memory upgrades since the first 32k bank came out, and they all work fine. the Q I have is, can the original 32k boards be modified so they get power from the 100 when installed? (18,PETER G) tony want to sign off and sign back on at 300 bad phone line (18,Sysop Tony) OK, go ahead. (18,Sysop Tony) Peter is going to sign off, and back on at 300 baud. Patience Meanwhile, some of you new folks should read the file CONFER.HLP in DL1, so you'll know how we run the conferences. It would sure help. (18,Sysop Tony) Peter's Back ... OK, Peter... on Rowlfe's question, can you power the 32K banks internally? (18,PETER G) WHAT 32K BANK INTERNAL (18,rowlfe) I }idon't think you got the question. On the original 32k expansion banks, which use their battery power all the time, whether in or out of the 100, can they be modified to take power from the 100 when installed? I am currently using 2, and 2 of your 64k banks, and I'd like to get out of the regular battery changing business with the 32k banks. (18,PETER G) yes we have a mod to the old 32k ram that blocked the rom slot to draw all power from m100. you just have to send it back and ask to have it done. (18,rowlfe) ok... will do. thanks. all done. (18,JAY HOLOVACS) How does the M100 see the Vault? Is it a linear sequential ramdisk or is it directly addrassable through an extended addressing Scheme?? How about using Powerdos or tsdos? (18,PETER G) The vault is not for the m100 its for the m102. it is part ramdisk and it is part directly addresable from roms and our opsys. it has its own disk op sys so power dos is not needed. (18,JAY HOLOVACS) Any possibliity of arranging space to adapt CPM in future? (18,PETER G) not a real good chance of that. (18,Sysop Tony) CPM is already available for the M100 from PIC in Southern California. (18,Phil) Peter -- Hi... As you know I am a very satified user of your 224K RAm bank. Re that: Why is a single big area an improvement? CAn you truly work with the huge files you can create (e.g., edit them)? Does it support a subdirectory structure ala the chipmunk so you can keep different versions of same file in differnt areas (with same name)? And with such a big RAM disk, what about the dreaded cold start? (18,PETER G) Hi phil... both memory styles have benifits to all people. as files get large you start to get to the limit of m100 usefullness in as far as what it was realy made for is notes and quick things... Present ver op sys does not support subdirectories. oh and yes those cold starts and all that memory that could be a problem but we built in may features to prevent and save that from happening. (excuse my spelling they only taught me programing in school.) (18,Phil) Well, I will probably prefer the 8 banks for my work., which is largely program development these days (lots of cold starts!) but for writing etc, the big area would be nice. But did you say the big files can be edited or not? (18,PETER G) yes they will be. files are limited to 32k on verision of op sys out today because if you made a file bigger it would not print out in any app. rom that is out today . next ver op sys works around that in it splits file to print and edit in exp roms on the market today . pg design will be coming out with new rom that will print and format edit right from the vault. know you will have to use std text program in m102 if you do not want to split file to edit in rom present out there. i say split it is all done automaticly in our op sys for you. not really hard to do. (18, BRENDA C) hi, this is my first time on-line, so please bare with me. If I understood you correctly, the vault does not work with the m100, if that is the case, I have a 24K m100 and would like to know HOW CAN I UPGRADE MY 24K IF THE VAULT DOES NOT WORK WITH THE 24K M100, HOW CAN I UPGRADE MY SYSTEM, WHERE CAN I ORDER AND GET PRINTED DOCUMENTATION? (edited - ed.) (18,Sysop Tony) Brenda, that's not really a germaine question. Upgrading the Model 100 to 32 K, or beyond is common knowledge, and is dealt with on the message board often. See the file EXPAND.RAM in DL13. This morning's conference deals with the Vault, PG Design's new RAM expansion unit for the 102, and other PG Design products. Undoubtedly Peter has info on that, and technical sheets he can mail out, but if you have a 100, it won't be of much value to you. Peter? (18,BRENDA CRAWFORD) THANK YOU. BRENDA (18,PETER G) thats true as phil said we have a 224k ram to upgrade your m100. (18,rowlfe) on the vault, could describe how it looks , or will look at a chunk of memory larger than it can directly address from the processor? This may be beyond the scope of the course.... if so, I'll hold till later. (18,PETER G) rowlfe-- might be a little beyond, but exp. in basic it will read and write file direct from vault... vault looks like a big chunk of memory that is not on the processer address buss it just sit out there waiting to read from or writen to... the op sys tells it where to rd/wr this memory info. if you have any other ques.or details you want i'll get it in a minute. (18,rowlfe) ok....maybe....I'll put it in a letter when I send my 32k banks back. thank you. (that's back for UPGRADE.) (18,Sysop Denny) Peter, since receiving the Vault, a couple of days ago, I have come down to just a couple of operations questions. 1st, how does it handle M/L programs, and 2nd, How do you exit gracefully back to normal operation. (18,PETER G) if you have ver 1.03 m/l file are load into low memory like they normally are and then loaded up into hi mem. next ver will load direct into himem and ask if you want himem changed if need be. explain your exit question. (18,Sysop Denny) Well, once installed you cannot exit the vault, except through UR-2 to get back to the main T102 menu where the Vault shows up as "Vault" on the menu. Is there a way to exit the Vault menu? (18,PETER G) ur-2 when you exit turns off all interupt vectors. in doing that it turns the vault program witch put you in the vault directory (? - ed.) we are working out a way to stop this . (18,Jim H) Peter: My question isn't about the vault, which is quite out of my price range.. I have an old 32k ram bank from PGD (the one that Covers the rom slot) And I have had some trouble with the bank switch program provided destroying a byte approx 500 bytes From HIMEM in the destination bank? Is this normal? Quite undesirable. (18,PETER G) jim--- you might have a old ver of bank.ba that does not disable interupts and it will destroy (misbyte) in destination bank. drop me a line i'll send you the right one to stop that. (18,Jim H) Thanks. The ver I have does 3 pokes and a call to bankswitch. Will call PGD tomorrow and see what can be done. Thank you again. (18,Phil) Before I ask my question -- Jim, I believe Peter has a 0menu copy utility for that 32K RAM unit which works well and is priced well. Peter may want to comment. Now peter, when I asked my last quetion you mentioned later OS versions. will they be user installable, or will these be "send it to the factory" modifications? Former much preferred!! (18,PETER G) Phil, the user will be able to install it just like a std rom chip unplug old ver, plug new one in. dont even have to take it apart just open rom door. (18,Phil) Gee, shoulda asked it before! Question is RE the ROM bank you mentioned. SAFE (?). Is it the same one being sold by Traveling Software? (18,PETER G) Phil yes it is - we are the designer of the hardware they did the software. (18,Phil) And is there a relationship between Vault and their Booster Pak? (18,PETER G) Phil, NO,NO!!!!! none what so ever!!!!! (18,Phil) Well, no pussy footing there!! (18,Joshua) You may have covered this earlier, but anyway here goes.... I can understand the Vault is for the 102, not the 100, but is there a version for the 200? and at what cost/memory? (18,Sysop Tony) Good question Joshua. And, is this the long rumored RAM expansion for the 200? (18,PETER G) the vault came out from our design efforts on the 200 ram. we never released a m200 ver because of lack of sales and have no place we could sell it. no magizne etc... we are looking back into the m200, and a m100 vault. no formal products now. people like the vault so much it would go well on the m100/m200. just a little redesign and it will work. but have to have some possible sales because of tooling cost. (18,Sysop Tony) Peter, are you aware that Portable 100 is back in business? and PICO is still around. .... And that there have been lots of 200 users crying for expansion RAM products for two years? They are now all flocking to the product released by Node Computer Systems since nothing else is available. (18,PETER G) yes that is going to help and P100 will help.... (18,Joshua) Flocking? to what? (18,Phil) [200 users in "Flocks"; interesting visualization] (18,PETER G) the node unit leaves no rom slot for anything. (18,Sysop Denny) [I thought they came in PODS] (18,Joshua) I'll be waiting for some tangible products now from you. (18,Sysop Denny) RE: Safe.... I really like the little utility that allows you to boot all the different roms you have in the Vault, In that you can just hit CR over the Rom and all the setup is done for you. Will there be something similar in the Safe? Will it be a menu program instead? (18,PETER G) it will be a menu program that you will use function keys that you will name. if no name on function key it will not switch into that rom or if you have removed the rom it will not switch into the program that gives you the menu of function keys. (18,Sysop Denny) ooooh neet! That'll sure make Roms livable. Right now, I go through major trauma switching Roms. (18,Phil) Peter, re the SAFE issue... I assume that there will be no conflicts with the likes of 0MENU, SUPERA, & POWR-DOS. Am I right? (18,PETER G) it works with all of those. its a m/l basic program that can live any where. (18,Phil) What will it NOT work with, anything known or generic? (18,PETER G) there is not anything we know of ..... it also solves the problem of TS and PCSG rom conflicts on trying to use them both and getting them to boot up. (18,Phil) GOOD and thanks for an interesting morning, Peter! (18,Sysop Tony) The time allotted for our formal conferece is over, so I'd like to thank Peter for being our guest today. Thanks, Peter! and thank you all for coming. We got off to a rocky start, but a lot of good information came through. .... If anyone has any other problems they need to discuss, we'll be around for a while yet. But We'll end the formal Conference here. *** END OF CONFERENCE *** (18,Joshua) Thanks from the peanut gallery over here!! And thanks to Tony for handling things well So long! (18,Sysop Tony) We're now in yak-yak mode. (18,Bill Heiman) [Phil learned to ask questions from TED KOPEL] (18,PETER G) tony how do i get a copy of the conference? (18,Sysop Tony) Denny will mail you one if you like, Peter. (18,Phil) Thanks (18,Sysop Tony) He'll be glad to do so. (grin) (18,PETER G) thanks talk to you guys later. (18,Sysop Denny) It should be available for downloading before the end of the weekend, right tony? :) (18,Sysop Tony) Yeah, later this evening. But we can still mail one to Peter if he prefers. (18,Sysop Denny) right. (18,PETER G) I'll sign on and get it (18,Sysop Tony) OK, Peter, we put them in DL1. This one will be called CONF87.081 (18,PETER G) ok i'll get it tonight. BYE (18,rowlfe) Tony, I sent email last month re the charger ckt, with an included drawing. (18,Sysop Tony) Rowlfe, - Oh, I thought you said "recent". Yes, I got the schematic. (18,rowlfe) Well, Tony, last month is recent for me.... we live a slower pace out here in the sticks. (18,Sysop Tony) Anyone have anything else to discuss? (18,Joshua) Has anyone else gotten a letter from Hildebrand/Club 100? (18,rowlfe) not me. what is it? (18,PETER G) not me and i advertize. (18,Sysop Tony) Not any more you don't, Peter. (grin) Laptop User is dead. (18,PETER G) i thought so but he could tell us (18,Sysop Tony) I agree. I fault JD for the way he handled it, especially after the support we gave him when he was starting it up. (18,Joshua) As a member (so-called) of Club 100, I got a form letter the other day ... (18,Phil) Me too, Joshua. (18,Joshua) I left a message headered "Laptop User/Club 100" describing it. I think none of these little starters have any idea of how much $$$ they need to have to run things. (18,Sysop Tony) JD should have known. He's been in the publishing business for some time. And was Editor of Portable 100, so should have seen what NOT to do. (18,Phil) Well, he did call it Shoestring pubs! (18,Sysop Tony) Forty Thou is not a shoestring. (18,Phil) Letter was similar to msg on Rick's BBS but no numbers. (18,Bill Heiman) Tony whats the cost of that Vault thing? (18,Sysop Tony) 256K = 549; 1M = 909 Its for the 102 ONLY. (18,Bill Heiman) No wonder I go broke trying to keep up with progress. (18,Phil) For me the 256K and 8 banks at about same price is best. (18,Sysop Tony) Yeah... RAM costs more than the computer.! (18,Phil) Yeah, seems the NODE stuff is lots cheaper! (18,Sysop Tony) It seems to be in a better price range. (For the "Flocks" anyway) (18,Bill Heiman) Think I'll keep my Brand X. (18,rowlfe) try this one for size.... an entire 64k cpm engine for $45! which I got last month! but has nothing to do with a M100, of course. (18,Phil) What is it, and where, Rowlfe? (18,rowlfe) Phil, it is the entire mother board from a Morrow Micro Decision. $45 from Silicon Valley Surplus in Oakland CA. Included a bunch of bundled software.... (18,Phil) Now, now -- CP/M is fun stuff!! (18,Sysop Tony) flock, flock! (18,rowlfe) particularly a wordstar workalike. (18,Phil) [not yet time for flocking those trees!] (18,Bill Heiman) Does anyone know if the Tandy 1400 LT comes with a built in modum.? (18,Phil) Well, but then you need drives, power etc... (18,Sysop Tony) Well, it's getting silly, here. Guess I'll go read the messages board. Bye (18,Phil) How about the Ciarcia machine on a board which mounts on a drive?? (messages are silly too!!) (18,rowlfe) phil, you're right, but I now have a replacement for my Northstar motherboard ... also, the ciarcia thing is really MUCH better than it seems. (18,Phil) Bill, probably available, but not likely at list price .. ala Toshiba etal. (18,rowlfe) and I probably will get one sometime , maybe. (18,Bill Heiman) Roger Phil. C U all later bye. (18,Phil) Now, about that Ted Kopel comment -- tee-hee; just know what to watch out for!! (18,Phil) me too! bye (18,Bill Heiman) 10-4 on that Phil. you asked... (18,rowlfe) gotta go as well, later then. bye all! (18,Bill Heiman) some real biting questions Thanks. List of Participants: 70250,211 PETER 70366,1316 Steve Nye 71066,155 mike a 71266,125 Phil 71666,1175 Corky 72160,463 Skip M. 72217,541 Joshua 72300,3072 Bill Heiman 72316,647 Rush C. 72407,3224 Marty T 73047,3120 C KARNOW 73720,1244 jim 73720,2373 suman mohindra 73720,2546 BRENDA CRAWFORD 73720,2567 BRIAN PROWS 74405,1177 rowlfe 74646,676 tom baden 74756,413 JAY HOLOVACS 75046,2325 Jon O 75076,3414 GEORGE RICHARDSON 76012,3532 Peter T. 76672,366 Jim H 76701,40 Sysop Denny 76703,376 \/\/ayne 76703,4062 Sysop Tony 76703,4311 Eiji and Peter G. Van Heusden, president of PG Designs, Inc. who does not have a regular CompuServe account number.