8:50:29 AM PST Sunday, October 25, 1987

(Sysop Denny) Hi Paul.

(Joe B.) [mornin!]

(GENE NESTRO) HI Joe B.

(Sysop Denny) Good morning Joe, Gene

(Joe B.) howdie, gene, you runnin conf?

(GENE NESTRO) no Denny is

(Sysop Denny) Yes, as a matter of fact

(GENE NESTRO) Lets get startedn denny,

(Sysop Denny) Ok Gene, You have a Q?

(GENE NESTRO) no, did you just get some garbled mess?

(Sysop Denny) Ah, it was Joe.

(Joe B.) Denny, and Gene  do you guys have a simple, and I do mean simple,
  ref on how to learn some basic programming skills?  like a text that is for
  us comp illiterates?

(GENE NESTRO) Well I taught myself from the manual & then I downloaded
  programs from here & dissected then & then saved the commands & just started
  trying them in my own programs.

(Sysop Denny) There should be a lot of books in a good computer bookstore
  that handle starting basic.  There is more info specific to the M100 in
  Hidden Powers of the M100 by Christopher Morgan.

(Joe B.) do we have a training group of files in the dl's about learning
  programming? perhaps we should, for us greenhorns, eh?  or perhaps a new dl?

(Sysop Denny) Well, since the subject is covered so well in books it would
  seem kinda redundant to have it here where it would be very expensive to
  download.  A lot more than a usual book price.  We do have some tutorials
  on M/L programming, though.

(GENE NESTRO) There are files "ELEGAT" or elegant? here somewhere
  [I have it as ELEGNT basic]

(Sysop Denny) Yes, ELEGNT.BAS in DL8.  Also the PGMTIP.* series

(GENE NESTRO) RS has a book called "model 100 basic language lab" that can
  prpbably be bought very cheap.

(Joe B.) That sounds like what I need, for sure and certainly a lot cheaper
  than trying to dwnld all the info so I guess I should get the book and then
  ask for help here on the SIG as needed, or as we say, p.r.n.

(GENE NESTRO) don't underestimate the tip files here, I have every book
  available on the 100 & I found info listed here that is not in any books
  e.g when using REM statements I always used an < ' > until I found out
  that Basic tokenizes < ' > as three bytes & REM is only one byte - quite a
  diff when memory is important.

(Sysop Denny) Yes, using the tip files after getting a basis in a book will
  get you up to speed with all the "hip" stuff rather quickly.  Anyway, you
  have another topic, Joe?

(Joe B.) yes two q's.  is there a bibliog of books on the m100 somewhere in
  the sig? and has there yet been a conference held on the booster pak?

(Sysop Denny) First, there is a file, BOOKS.001 in DL13 that is a pretty good
  list.  And also BOOK01.REV which I don't know if it pertains.  And no, no
  booster pack CO yet.

(GENE NESTRO) This is really a ?  Denny, do u use 'flow-charting'?

(Sysop Denny) No, never have.  It was always simpler to get started and bull
  my way through than to spend almost the same time on a flowchart although
  sometimes I'll chart a particularly difficult routine.

(GENE NESTRO) I don't use it either. I paid $999 for this M100.

(Sysop Denny) [BOOK01.REV doesn't apply]

(GENE NESTRO) to replace a pencil & paper & I wasn't going to go thru all
  that.  Mite be your first tip, Joe.

(Joe B.) [right]

(Sysop Denny) Although, When I was writing M/L programs.

(Sysop Denny) commercially, I liked doing it all on paper.  It was much easier
  to have a pad of paper for the mainline routine and one for subroutines
  and yet another for definitions and equates I find doing it on a screen
  rather limiting Of course, I had a keypunch service converting my paper
  output to something that the computer could handle.

(Joe B.) Denny, is it possible to upld something into this conference as we
  speak?

(Sysop Denny) Well, yes and no.  You can upload a few lines (up to about 300
  bytes) but after that, Compuserve chokes and won't allow further input.
  There is supposedly some inhancement to CO software that will allow folks
  to upload stuff to each other in TLK mode Why do you ask?

(Joe B.) wondered if that was how you get your infor on getting into the
  lineup sent so quikly!

(Sysop Denny) Well, that is due to Tony's Fabulous Macro Program TFMP for
  short.  I have several macros that pertain to sysop/CO stuff.

(Joe B.) great info!  tanx!

(Sysop Denny) You can get a copy by just asking Tony.

(GENE NESTRO) Does CTRL v & CTRL x or u still work?

(Sysop Denny) Yep, I use ^V and ^U all the time especially today since my line
  is still recovering from a recent rainstorm that is adding a lot of noise.

(GENE NESTRO) OK this is a test.  Did anything follow test...?

(Sysop Denny) no, what command did you use?

(GENE NESTRO) CTRL v & then CTRL u.  I guess it worked.  I thought my computer
  wasn't working.

(Sysop Denny) Yep, if you don't have anything typed on a line, and you hit CR,
  nothing will happen.

(Joe B.) just thought I'd ask for a dexcription of those commands, but you've
  already done that I'd say... thanx.

(Sysop Denny) ^V redisplays any line that you haven't sent yet, and ^U cancels
  the line you were just typing.  These only work if you haven't hit CR yet.

(Joe B.) Phil, were you telling me in a message last night, that you have a
  booster pak?

(Phil) No, that was Denny.

(Joe B.) ok, thanx.  welcome aboard the pakkers, denny!

(Sysop Denny) Yes, very interesting device, A little BIG though.

(GENE NESTRO) Do you think a directory of mixed drinks would be appreciated
  in a DL?   the reason I'm asking - I have a disk from my teaching days -
  that has drink receipes on it.

(Sysop Denny) Er, Well, er, I don't know, but there is a wine forum on CIS
  that would probably welcome your file.

(GENE NESTRO) ok will think about it.

(Joe B.) Sure  I think a lot of us would pay to dwnld that one if it contains
  those oldtime favorites like the "cobal collision," and the "Basic Bomber,"
  don't you know...

(GENE NESTRO) It has the Big Chill in it.

(Joe B.) Sounds like my kind a directory

(Sysop Denny) Gee, I guess I don't have a feel for how many party animals we
  have! (grin)

(GENE NESTRO) I'll post a message & see what response I get.  BTW how about
  a new command, donga = done ga?

(Phil) [I have Big Chill in my M100!]

(Sysop Denny) Ok, did you have another Q, Joe?

(Joe B.) Is DL 17 to be used for only computer related stuff, or could a
  person load a short story into it for everyone's pleasure in parts, I mean.
  It is just being finished, and runs about 40 typwritten doublespaced pages
  which I'd lhave to load up in sections, I'd guess.

(Sysop Denny) Yes, DL17 is the place for anything not related to computers
  directly and if you have a story, I'm sure it could find a home there.
  Have you checked out any of the other files there?

(Joe B.) yes, and most have a light touch which I like, but many have a
  computer-flavor too,  which made me think possibly my murder plot/adventure
   wouldn't exactly fit.

(Sysop Denny) Well, I don't see any problem, but you might want to try the
  Journalism forum if you want some REAL feedback.

(Joe B.) Yes, but those guys are real pros over there.  I tried it once, and
  you can't really even get into their good files unles you provide them
  contact referecns that they can then use in their work!  Too much for me,
  frankly.  I like the friendly approach here on the M100SIG!

(Sysop Denny) Well, we do try.  Anyway, I'm sure that your story could find a
  home here. (Heck with those JOURN guys!)

(Joe B.) Thanx.

(Sysop Denny) Joe, Did you get all of your BP problems solved?

(Joe B.) Pretty well, except for the ones with XTel.  Much experience with
  that, Denny?

(Sysop Denny) Yes, I've been running X-tel with no problems.  I just modified
  one of my programs to work with it.  What's been the problem?

(Joe B.) When I get into looking at files in my BP while on line, by hitting
  CODE and F-6 I can see the files just fine, but then I cannot get back OUT
  of that mode, back into the on-line stuff I was doing before, Versteh?

(Sysop Denny) Yes, I haven't had that one.  It doesn't do anything after you
  press the key and display the files it just leaves you on a blank line,
  ready for more online input.  Have you reloaded the X-Tel programs from ROM?
  You might have a corrupted copy.

(Joe B.) No  I've been using the XTEL.BA, instead of the CO version.  Would
  that matter?

(Sysop Denny) Well, you have to use both. The BA program is just a loader.
  It's loading the CO program, even though you don't see it.

(Joe B.) Oh, I see.  And what happens when I'm doing a download, using X-Dn,
  and I just keep getting "waiting" signals and that 's all?  I never get the
  stuff downloaded!  Guess I need to read more on this instead of bothering
  you guys with it.

(Sysop Denny) Have you used the <D>ownload option at the file prompt?  If you
  just try to read the file, it won't work with Xmodem, you have to select
  Xmodem protocol on the CIS menu.

(Joe B.) Oh, that's it!  VOILA!  Thankx millions!

(Sysop Denny) Yep, dats it.  Ok, next is the ever patient Allaire.
  Or should I say the non-existant Allaire!  [Sysopery?]

(Joe B.) One more thing have you tried dnld ing anyting right into the RamDisk?

(Sysopery Tony) [Sysopist?]

(Joe B.) When I've tried to use the R:filename trick.  I just get a signal
  that says, Download aborted every time!  Must I use XTel for this?

(Phil) [Reco??]

(Bill Heiman) [looks like Sysopfoolery]

(Sysop Denny) You must have been trying to give an extension that it didn't
  like.  You can only use .DO extenisons.  I just downloaded the long index
  directly to Ramdisk.  no problem.

(Phil) You must use F6 for this.  Cannot download to R: from normal Telcomm
  And you can get ASCII capture by CTRL-F6, I believe.

(Phil) Ugghhh---Must use xtel, I meant to say!

(Joe B.) Ok.  if I wanted to start downloading this sig conf right now, using
  f6, would I just press f6 and go?

(Sysop Denny) Nope.  You would have to use CTRL F6 (Reco).  Regular F6 is only
  for Xmodem downloads.

(Joe B.) Oh, neat...I'll try. back if not cut off!

(Sysop Denny) [No Fun?]

(No Fun ynoT) [Well, whadya want?

(Joe B.) It's working!  Thanx.

(Phil) [Magic, from the other Joe B.!]

(Joe B.) [Right!!]

(Sysop Denny) To make you feel better, Joe  I found the structure of the BP
  rather confusing to start. I still don't have a real good feel for the
  "enviorment" concept.  They do take up a lot of RAM, so I deleted most of
  them that I was trying.

(Joe B.) Agreed that the environments are tought to understand at first and
  the only way I could do it was to imagine the "environment" to be baggage
  that that specific ROM chip brings with it every time and then I could
  begin to usderstand why they'd constantly ask if I wanted such-nsuch a
  Rom updated constantly but not I think I've got that down it took several
  times of including unwanted documents with SARDIN before I understood that.

(Sysop Denny) oops

(Phil) Yes, BP seems to totally change the feel of the machine.  It is a bit
  (or more!) hard to get handy at using and does not seem intuitive the way
  the M100 is.

(Joe B.) right, but it's nice not to have to constantly worry about carrying
  a disk drive with me while on trips, etc.  For us writers, it's a godsend!

(Phil) My preference is for the 8 bank system I now have (PG Designs).  it does
  not give me more than one ROM but that can be fixed awith SARDINE+/ROMPAK
  and it does not change the operation of the machine all that much just gives
  you 8 machines in one.

(Joe B.) Yeah, but this is one helluva gadget for us gadget freaks!

(Phil) [Agreed!]

(Sysop Denny) Now, if they can only come up with a program that will allow
  you to edit with regular TEXT, any size file that you have in the BP.
  Supposedly, the Vault software is ready that will do that.  I haven't
  received it yet, but they said they were shipping. 

(Phil) Big hassle to me is BIG.  the size of something portable is paramount
  (to me).  My 256K M100 is no bigger than before; it all fits inside. But
  then I am an extremist on this point!

(Sysop Denny) Undoubtetly.

(Joe B.) one q, one comment.  Is this "Vault" program going to be designed for
  the BP?  if so great!

(Sysop Denny) No, the Vault is a Ram expansion like the BP but only for the
  T102.  Much smaller, makes a 102 about the size of a M100 and can store up
  to 1 meg.

(Joe B.) and about size, I too respect it, but My 100 with bp is only about
  the thickness of my old 200! [oops]

(Sysop Denny) Traveling Software said that they are working on a "virtual"
  editing program.

(Joe B.) well THAT's what we need, for sure.

(Sysop Denny) Ok, any more, or should I get out the slide?

(Joe B.) [must go, guys, thanx for a nice CO!]

(Sysop Denny) [You're welcome!]  Bill, Joshua, Any comments from you?

(Bill Heiman) not really unless you want a (filler)

(Sysop Denny) Well, Bill, If you don't have anything to talk about, I think
  I'll close here.

(Bill Heiman) O.K. with me.  the time change must have fooled them.

(Sysop Denny) Actually, things were quite spirited this morning.  I think
  we'll call it the "Joe Show"
  We just finished a discussion on the Traveling Software Booster Pack, but
  now, there is no topic, your choice.

(Jeff S) I'm really sorry, but I can't think of anything to say.  Co's aren't
  always this quiet, are they?

(Sysop Denny) No, but there are some quiet periods, and attendance has been
  down a bit this summer We hope things will pick up as folks get snow bound
  and have nothing else to do on a Sunday morn. (grin)

(Jeff S) Oh, OK.  I think I'll stay around a little while and watch what
  happens.

(Sysop Denny) which will be available some time today or tomorrow.  Was that
  the Q you were going to ask?

(Bill Heiman) Denny, have you played with the MATCH program?

(Sysop Denny) Well, I tried it out when it was first uploaded.  Seemed to work
  just fine.

(Bill Heiman) I found out something interesting, not spectacular, just
  interesting.  I recently uploaded a msg to my own EazyPlex and then matched
  the incomming msg to the file I uploaded.  It through back all lines that I
  had indented with a TAB.  On further checking I found that CIS does not tab
  on EP it replaces tabs with 8 spaces.  Hows that for trivia.

(Sysop Denny) Further trivia  You can change that so the tabs are real in your
  DEFAULT section.  I would guess that you have them set for simulated (noise
  on my crippled phone line).

(Bill Heiman) I don't care how I get the 8 spaces as I format before sending.

(Phil) Well, sometimes it is not so trivial.  Some files here really NEED
  real tabs -- like the assembly sources in most cases.  Expand them and
  they will not assemble.

(Sysop Denny) That's true.

(Bill Heiman) ah hah  good point.

(Sysop Denny) Custom Software source code will not handle spaces instead of
  tabs would be a good idea to download them with Xmodem, if possible.

(Phil) INteresting point:  if you expand tabs on screen, I assume that you
  will get spaces (not tabs) in any R)ead download.  Right?  But not xmodem.
  [Hmmm..they may expand on screen either way!] [Must go check!]

(Bill Heiman) [O.K. I'll change my profile]

(Sysop Denny) I think if you set Tabs to REAL, they will be real in messages
  and read type dl's as well.

(Bill Heiman) [oh oh  can of worms open]

(Sysop Denny) I don't think it's limited to regular DL's.

(Phil) Hmmm  but maybe DC4/DC2 downloads will not expand?

(Sysop Denny) I don't know for sure. I guess you'll be checking momentarily.
  (grin)

(Phil) Moi??? mais non!

(Sysop Denny) Harumph  Well anyway
  Well, it looks like we're out of time for this morning's conference.  So
  I'll end the formal conference now.  Feel free to stick around and chat
  further, if you like.  Thanks for coming this morning, we appreciate your
  input.  Bye.   *** END OF CONFERENCE ***

(Tony) Prompt, aren't you?

(Phil) [and fast!]

(Sysop Denny) I aim to please. :)

(Bill Heiman) [its cut off time  slash]


List of Participants:

  70250,211   PETER
  71266,125   Phil
  71450,1327  Robert D.
  72216,512   GENE NESTRO
  72217,541   Joshua
  72227,1661  Paul Globman
  72276,2454  WAYNE S.
  72300,3072  Bill Heiman
  72407,3224  Marty T
  72527,1246  Joe B.
  73337,2370  Paul Picot
  75755,1312  Jeff S
  76067,336   Allaire
  76701,40    Sysop Denny
  76703,4062  No Fun ynoT