8:55:40 AM PST Sunday, November 1, 1987

(KURT STEINMETZ) HELLO  HELP

(Sysop Tony) Good morning.  Use a slash in front of your command words, Kurt.

(GENE NESTRO) Tony, did you take notice of the women?

(Sysop Tony) Well, I ALWAYS take notice of the women (grin), but it did
  seem there were a few more around than usual this week.

(GENE NESTRO) yes there were.  Tony, I mite get out your way around Jan.
  I owe you a dinner.

(Sysop Tony) Well, if you feel so inclined, who am I to argue.  Just give me a
  call and we'll see if we can get our schedules together.

(R Caley) I checked my "Best Of" manual and I didn't see an Accounts
  Receivable for M-100.  Do you know of any comm'l co.'s that might have one?

(Sysop Tony) Well, I don't recall any, unless they are part of the GL series
  in DL4.  But When GL appeared, it seemed it was going to be much better than
  what I was going to convert.  In retrospect, it may not be complete.
  However, when Dave left, and I took over Sysoping duties here, I found I
  have little time for personal pursuits programming, writing files, etc.
  You may have noticed my output along those lines has dropped off seriously.
  So I doubt that I will be able to pursue it any further.

(GENE NESTRO) was going to refer him to the GL series.  What ever happened to
  your (Tony) acc. program? promised in Oct '86 for Dec?
  Accts Recv  Payroll  progs I'd like to see

(Sysop Tony) You might check in the file SOFTWR.100 in DL13, which listed
  all the commercial programs available at the time of posting.
  Well, hello, Rowlfe.  What's new up your way?

(rowlfe) well, just got the fire lit in the downstairs fireplace, and I
  thought I'd log in and see what's been happening we FINALLY got a little
  rain up here yesterday!  And I now have another computer, a Morrow MD3 up
  and running with drives thay said I couldn't hook to it.
  and that's about it.  been kinda slow around here lately, and denny, I
  LIKE the rain.

(Sysop Denny) [your complaining?]  Well, you should be in LA. It's been
  raining for 2 days.

(GENE NESTRO) Is there a faster way to load .BA progs?

(Sysop Tony) To load them from where?

(GENE NESTRO) from say, a .DO file or from "EDIT"

(Sysop Tony) No.  What's actually happening there is that the ROM routines
  are taking your .DO file and sticking it into the equivalent of the keyboard
  buffer, so it appears as if the data is being typed into the command
  interpreter of the BASIC routines.  Each line is being tokenized, and stored
  in the .BA form.  Each time "Wait" blinks, (or flashes) you have converted
  one line.  Try it yourself with a one line .DO file you'll get one flash.
  Try it with a ten line file and you get ten flashes.

(GENE NESTRO) Flashing away.

(rowlfe) [its easier to see if you use LONG lines.]

(Sysop Tony) Speaking of long lines
  Everybody party last night?  (grin)

(GENE NESTRO) I worked.

(rowlfe) [not me, I had duty. BOO!]

(GENE NESTRO) I get a FC error.

(Phil) Well, you are not supposed to run it, only loadm it.  It runs by a
  Call I should have not given it an ENT.

(GENE NESTRO) ok... thanx

(Sysop Tony) I worked at the big Monster Mash last night at Bally's in Reno.

(Phil) [Mr. Math]

(Sysop Tony) It was something else!  But the biggest thing of the eveing was
  in the "Couples" category, ... the winner was... (and get this...) A "Half
  Man-Half Woman".  One guy!  

(Sysop Denny) Gag!  Phil, I was working with QKRCHK a coulple of nights ago
  and assembled the ASM file again to make the change for running with X-Tel.
  (RZ instead of JZ Menu)  I did this for the Booster Pack and when I tried
  running it, I'd get variable results sometimes it would be correct, and
  sometimes I'd get 0000 for a checksum Any thoughts?

(Phil) Well, I guess this DID work for you in the non-BP applications (as I
  recall) so it must be something in the BP or the BP x-tel.  The Chksum
  gets written at the higher part of Alt LCD in use.  It could be that BP
  uses part of Alt LCD buffer as a scratch pad area -- much the way the M100
  OS uses parts of it for certain functions.  Must be corrupting alt LCD
  buffer some way.

(Sysop Denny) That was my conclusion, also.  Oh well, I'll just assemble it
  below X-Tel and tag it on to the front.

(Phil) Another scheme would be to test it without x-tel in use.  Could be the
  origingal version of qkrchk (with JZ exit) will also get walked on.

(Sysop Denny) Never had any probs with that version except for not being able
  to load it from the Chipmunk.

(Phil) have you tried it with the BP, tho?

(Sysop Denny) Yes, it loads fine with the BP, just give intermittent problems.

(Phil) But what I mean is, does it hiccup only when used from within x-tel,
  or if you use it without being in x-tel also?  Could be in BP x-tel
  implementation.  Turns out it is significant since we have other utils
  (e.g., SORTHI) which might be incompatibvle with Booster Pack if it is
  walking on ALT LCD.

(Sysop Denny) No, it doesn't matter if I'm using X-tel or not - happens
  without X-tel installed.

(Phil) Uggghh!

(Sysop Denny) That's why I brought it up.  Could be a major hassle for ALT LCD
  fans.

(Phil) Better ask Gordon to tell us what is happening and if there is a
  specific set of addresses to be avoided.

(Sysop Denny) Will do.

(Gary P.) I have a 600 and I'm looking for a basic chip.  I thougt there was a
  file "DISCNT.INF" in DL11, but I can't find it.  Any ideas?

(Sysop Tony) That file is in DL13 since it applies to ALL the portables, not
  just the 600.  Several folks have mentioned a company called BODEX.  I'm
  not familiar with it.
  PS:  You'll be very lucky if you find one "in stock" anywhere.  There have
  been constant reports of delay, while the chips were ordered from the Fort
  worth warehouse.  Any more on this?

(Gary P.) Well, guess I'll just have to find out.

(Sysop Tony) Good luck.  It's worth buying, just so you can use the extra
  programs.  Anyone have a pressing (or even interesting) topic?  More forum
  staff here than CO-fer's.

(Phil) Interesting geography this am!

(Sysop Tony) What do you deduce from that?

(Phil) Must be great weather in the East!

(Sysop Tony) And now there is one less.

(rowlfe) C:weather

(Sysop Tony) Well, I think "High noon" is difficult for them.

(rowlfe) have you guys heard about the lack of rain up this way?

(Sysop Tony) Hee hee.  Rowlfe, we miss your technical input here.

(Phil) [yes!  I lived there for years -- wierd!]

(Sysop Denny) nope, is everything brown yet?

(Sysop Tony) just last week, I had an ongoing (almost) argument with a fellow
  in Germany regarding the charging of Chipmunk nicads, etc.  He wasn't about
  to let go on his view of how they should be charged.

(Phil) [Larry Holmes says Tony was right!]

(rowlfe) well, I was just wondering if it made the national news since it is
  BIG news up here for a week or so, they closed down the lumber industry
  because of the fire hazard, which made it impossible for me to get my wood
  last week for next year, oh well.  there's always another weekend on the
  nicd business, what was this guy doing, or not doing?

(Sysop Tony) Kind of late to be laying in wood, isn't it?  By the way, The
  Chipmunk can be used on AC only, with a 7.5 to 12 volt supply, capable of
  supplying 1 amp, and after disconnecting the nicads.  

(rowlfe) [this is for NEXT winter, I already have it all for this year!]

(Sysop Tony) (Oh)  The discussion was over the "proper" way to charge nicads.
  (I think)  It started, as the result of Doug Pratt's question or actually
  comment about using a larger power supply and "forcing" too much current
  into the Chipmunk.  When we'd kicked that around a little, the nicad
  question got started, and got a bit technical measuring internal resistance
  of nicads, charging rate, etc.  The fellow recommended only using a
  "Constant Current" charger Which is DEATH to nicads.

(rowlfe) yup. agree. on the chipmunk I do have a question.  does it use
  single side or double side disks?  reason why I ask is I was wondering if
  it was under consideration to move the capacity up to the 760k or so that
  the double side drives can do.

(?) Writes on only 1 side; you can use 1-side or 2-sided disks.

(Sysop Tony) Holmes is no longer connected with Holmes Engineering and has
  been online, and indicated he's working on new projects one of them SEEMS to
  be, based on our guesses and his comments, a hard disk for the M100 family.

(rowlfe) oh boy!  good news, if true I have rearranged the budget one more
  time to start saving the bucks for something completely different, and the
  chipmunk heads the wish list right now.

(Sysop Tony) Well, the company that took over Holmes Engineering has
  apparently pulled the marketing of the Chipmunk away from PCSG.  But they
  haven't seemed to start any new marketing approach yet.  I think they'll be
  selling it direct.  And no rumors of plans to expand it from that source.
  So I'd guess it's gonna be a 360K machine forever.  With the large RAM
  expansion products currently available, many folks are choosing them over
  disk drives, and the Chipmunk may be a superior product that falls by the
  wayside.  If Larry brings a hard disk to market, expect it to be in the
  $895-$995 price range to start off.

(rowlfe) well, that's only about 2x the cost of a chipmunk, isn't it?

(Sysop Tony) (Yeah)

(rowlfe) and I think would be worth it.  for what I would suspect would be a
  megabyte (10-20?) size and I sure could use that!  just means saving a
  little longer.

(Phil) Jeezz, I wonder if a HDD for a m100 makes much sense.  How many files
  would that be, anyway -- say at 5K per file.  Seems like the directory
  management.

(rowlfe) [povided it is portable like the munk is.]  [ineed portability.]

(Sysop Tony) (2000!)

(Phil) and such would be a real bear -- like 30 times as many as on a
  Chipmunk!  Hmmmm, interesting, but some major issues, I'll bet!

(Sysop Tony) I'd think it managable with the folder system the Chipmunk
  currently uses.  And if it's approximately the same size, managble as a
  portable unit.  I see no reason he can't do that; there are 3.5 inch HD
  units available now.  (to be mounted internally)  But a directory "List"
  would be a BEAR!

(rowlfe) well, wouldn't it be similar to sub-diractories?  isn't that what
  the folders used by the chipmunk really amount to?

(Sysop Tony) Yeah, that's what I meant by "folders".

(Phil) Directory mgmt on a PC with a 10 MB HDD is a bear.  Get lots of
  duplicates and have trouble finding things.  And that is with a BIG screen
  t/tim at the directories in a wide format.  Definitely would need some
  utils to find dups and to do "where is it" functions -- all avail now for
  IBM's.

(rowlfe) on duplicates, can the chipmunk do some form of time stamping?
  that would be one way to "sort" the directory.

(Sysop Tony) Right now, the Chipmunk "Date" stamps files.  Assuming you have
  the correct date in memory.  The Date Bug causes some files to be updated
  before they are created. (grin)

(Phil) issue is to figure what subdirectory you put that "favorite" utility
  in you have not used for two months, and to find if you have copies in
  several subdirectories.  Issue of old vs. new is another one, also important!

(rowlfe) [guess a good road map would be handy.]

(Sysop Tony) There are a couple, Rowlfe, in DL9.  They printout the complete
  sub-directory listing giving you names, filesizes, dates and everything.
  I've used at least one of them myself.

(Phil) Then you need to figure out how to back the thing up!  Giant bubble?

(Sysop Tony) That's what RAMDISK's are for.  (grin)  Well, let's see what Paul
  has on his mind.  OK?  Any closing Chipmunk comments?

(rowlfe) [nope]

(Sysop Tony) OK, Paul, you're up.

(Paul Globman) WELL, this is my first visit to the Conference.  Is there
  anything I should know?

(Sysop Tony) Yep.

(Paul Globman) Ok what?

(Sysop Tony) There's a file on how to CO in DL1, called CONFER.HLP, and a
  second one, NEWCO.HLP.  They both outline how conferences are held, what
  protocols are used, how to "join in", how to get help the command structure,
  all the little godies you can do online, and so on.  Other than that, the
  best way to learn is by doing it.

(Paul Globman) I'll see what I can pick up on the fly.  what's the topic
  today?  Well, I've been working on a utility for LOMEM that brings functions
  to the MENU.

(Sysop Tony) Sounds interesting.  Want ideas, or comments?

(Paul Globman) I'm open to idaes and comments.  I am doing it with the 200 so
  there's less ram.

(Sysop Tony) OK.  So what you are proposing is to use a LOMEM program,
  presumably ML routines, to add function key capabilities at the main menu?

(Paul Globman) okay.  F2=reverse bank switching.  F3=option rom switching
  (SAFE+Sardine). F6=jump to HIMEM.  F7=bank partitioning, and
  F8=background printing.

(Sysop Tony) Sounds good.  I don't know about the jump to HIMEM, though unless
  you have a ML program there, ready to execute, Blooey!  I'd think a "Load
  from disk" capability would be useful at the main menu but with limited DOS
  info, perhaps beyond your capability.  Or maybe a "Disk Directory" sort of
  thing.

(Paul Globman) I did the Load from disk a few years ago.  that is what the
  jump to himem can be set to do.

(Phil) Sounds good, Paul.  Maybe the 'himem' can be user-selected address,
  installable to go to the ENT of the program loaded at the time (may not be
  himem).  Gee, with all this productivity, gotta have this guy get a Model
  100!

(Sysop Tony) Can you get labels on the bottom line of the Menu?

(Phil) [0MENU does]

(Paul Globman) I have a M100 and put FLOPPY at the the menu with 1 f-key.
  Yes, I put labels at the menu label line.

(Sysop Tony) (That's interesting!)  How did you do it?

(Paul Globman) how did I do what?  I've done so much lately (haha).

(rowlfe) [the labels on the menu line.]

(Sysop Tony) How did you get new labels on the label line?  Thought it was
  protected?

(Paul Globman) Well, it's a long story.  First you examine all keystrokes,
  then you unwind the stack to see where the call for keyscan originated
  from, then you compare that stack entry with the KNOWN address of the Menu
  keyscan, and if equal, then put cursor at lower left of lcd and print what
  you want.

(Sysop Tony) Hmmmm... the part about unwinding the stack is complex, but the
  part about putting the cursor at the bottom corner and rewriting the line, I
  understand.  The question is, do you do what while the OS is normally
  waiting for interrupt input at the menu?

(Paul Globman) I just sit and let the OS do its thing.

(Sysop Tony) Huh!  I'd like to see the source code for that.  I'd think that
  once the menu is in place, you'd have to hook into the keyscan routine to be
  able to write to the LCD.

(Paul Globman) I use ram hook #4 to look at keystrokes.

(Sysop Tony) Anyone else have any comments on this?

(rowlfe) do we have more info on the hooks in memory?  I don't have much,
  and I sure could use it for the 100.

(Sysop Tony) There are a couple of good files in DL8, HOOK and HOOK2.  They
  give quite a bit of detail.

(rowlfe) will get them.  Paul, can you upload some of this stuff for us to
  look over?

(Paul Globman) The basics of what I did was submitted to Portable 100.  If
  they publish it, you will see it in print.  If not, I will upload it for
  public domain.

(rowlfe) ok.  thanks.

(Sysop Tony) Did they give you any idea of their interest?

(Paul Globman) yes, I spoke to Alan Zeichock, and he said it looked
  interesting.  They have meeting on the 1st of the month to discuss new
  submissions.  I should know in a week or two (I hope).

(Sysop Tony) OK.  Any more on this subject, guys?  (Slide time...)

(Paul Globman) I co-sysop the M100 sig on a s.florida bbs.  I am looking for
  new users.  Do we have any south floridians around here?

(Sysop Tony) Well, not today, but a few of our members have moved down to
  Florida.  (and not been heard from since...)  Maddi Durholz was one.  She
  was a DVI guru, and telecommunications specialist.  One of these days, we've
  GOT to start a file listing BBS's around the country that support the Model
  100 family.

(Paul Globman) I don't know of that many.  How many users would incur LD
  charges just to BBB to a M100 sig?

(Sysop Tony) Most.  But the question is often asked  "Are there any local
  BBS's that suppor the 100?"  Of course, we have no way of knowing, other
  than from reports what BBS's support the Model 100's.  It's not as if all
  the sysop's contact CompuServe to let them know.  (grin)  But long distance
  charges would be a significant thing, I'd think, to most users.

(Paul Globman) Yeah, well you can direct any Ft. Lauderdale area users to me,
  and I'll furnish whatever info is requested.

(Sysop Tony) Well, let me think about a file structure to list BBS's, and
  yours can be the first in the list.  Or maybe second.  (grin)  Club 100 is
  pretty well known.

(Paul Globman) I thought they died along with LAPTOP user.

(Sysop Tony) Aha!  Another misinformed member of the public.  Club 100 is a
  membership BBS in the San Francisco area.  It's been online about 4 years.
  When Laptop User started up, they inadvertently (quote-unquote) used the
  same name for something they were going to offer, an "insiders" group, with
  buying discounts, etc. a BBS was proposed, and when they found there was
  already a Club 100, they attempted to pool resources.  (or services)
  Laptop User failed, but the Club 100 BBS still goes on.

(Paul Globman) I didn't know that.

(rowlfe) [And the number is?]

(Sysop Tony) Gee, I don't know.  I don't use it.  But Denny is a member,
  and can give you the number.  Send him a message asking for it.

(Phil) [I can find it]

(rowlfe) [2 of my brothers live there and could use it maybe.]

(Phil) [415-939-1246]  

(Sysop Tony) Thanks, Phil.

(Paul Globman) BTW, I am dealer for Traveling software and give discounts to
  my sig members.

(Sysop Tony) Interesting.  But you shouldn't mention that here.

(Phil) [gee -- didn't know they had dealers!]

(Sysop Tony) CompuServe is DEATH on any sort of "commercial" promotion.
  Although what constitutes "promotion" is a matter of interpretation.

(Paul Globman) Ok, forget it!

(Sysop Tony) So, the less said about that... and all that.  Unless you also
  can aford to "support" the TS products online.  What we've seen in the
  past is that folks who are "thinking about" buying the products ask
  interminable questions before purchase, then require great handholding while
  getting it up and running and then complain, and ask for modifications when
  it isn't EXACTLY what they want.  Some companies have found it too expensive
  to provide online support, and anyone officially connected with the company
  (as in the case of a dealer) is expected to offer that support.  So best not
  say anything unless you are willing to open a can of worms.

(Paul Globman) I know what you mean.  I am not a dealer per se, but am
  permitted to offer discounts to my members.  They still look t/tim
  only to save a few.

(Sysop Tony) I think it's getting to that time, folks.  Well, it looks
  like we're out of time for this morning's conference.  So I'll end the
  formal conference now.  Feel free to stick around and chat further if you
  like.  Thanks for coming this morning, we appreciate your input.  Bye.
  *** END OF FORMAL CONFERENCE *** Anaything else?

(rowlfe) [gots to go, see you guys later!]


List of Participants:

  70250,211   PETER
  70721,327   Marty T
  71266,125   Phil
  72216,512   GENE NESTRO
  72227,1661  Paul Globman
  72300,3072  Bill Heiman
  72316,647   R Caley
  73156,2540  Randy Mays
  73720,3563  GARY PARFITT
  74405,1177  rowlfe
  76701,40    Sysop Denny
  76703,4062  Sysop Tony