9:00:38 AM PST Sunday, November 15, 1987


(Phil) Hello out there -- anyone around yet?  Hmmmm...no sysop about just now;
  wonder where ynoT went?  We are not yet in session I guess -- but what is
  the Q, Wayne?  [go ahead]

(WAYNE T.) I HAD A HARDWARE QUESTION.  IT CONCERNS THE ADDRESSING OF EXTERNAL
  RAM.  HOW CAN I DISABLE INTERNAL RAM WHEN USING AN EXTERNAL BANK?

(R Caley) [hi guys]

(Phil) Hi Rush.  Gee, I'm not the guy to ask that one; Stan?

(GENE NESTRO) Mornin

(Phil) oops -- stan went away!  And still no Sysop!  GM, Gene!  Let's see -- I
  think there is a transcript running so no reason not to start, I guess.
  I will fill in for  bit.  Usual rules Q for question C for comment on
  present topic.  no subjuect -- unless it is split screen!

(GENE NESTRO) Anyone using the split screen?

(R Caley) This is in regards to Wayne's question.  I'm interested in the
  answer as well but even more important, I'd like to know WHY it's not a
  SOFTWARE question.  It seems to me you'd have to have SOME software tell
  m-100 to disable internal RAM and address something external.

(Host Phil) Yes.  good point.

(WAYNE T.) the software has to have something to control.  The thing I am
  trying to accomplish is to set up external ram to build a ramdisk.

(R Caley) But don't products like those from Soundsight have their own OS?
  There would need to be software on BOTH ends that would have to communicate
  to each other when one was to take over.

(Host Phil) Wayne, there is a need for both hardware and software, and there are a
  variety of commercial products which do what you are trying to do (do
  BRO/KEY=RAM in DL13) to see what some of them are.  I am right now using a
  M100 with 256 RAM inside the case, courtey of PG desgns.

(WAYNE T.) I have used the technique on my TI where I switched memory into the
  internal bank for the disk transferred data.

(R Caley) You are right phil.  Both Traveling Software and The Vault people
  offer up to 2 meg.  That's enough for anyone, I'd think.

(Host Phil) Yeah -- the Node stuff is pretty cheap, too!

(rowlfe) [Hi everybody]

(Host Phil) [hi rowlfe]

(WAYNE T.) the problem I have is $$$$$.  I have the chips not the bread.

(Host Phil) Well, there is knowledge here.  Best is to leave a msg on the board
  and you will likely get an answer from one of the more device oriented
  guys.  I know Stan Wong is doing some memory-type stuff.  Is that enuff on
  that topic Wayne?

(Paul Globman) Good morning.

(WAYNE T.) thanks for the ides.  bye.

(Host Phil) Now Gene, you asked re split screen.  I am using it.  M200 version
  (they are different).

(GENE NESTRO) Just womdered.  I used echo for users & lost spl/cr when I
  returned.

(Host Phil) Send Q for question, C for comment, wait for ga before sending.
  Hmmm...don't know what you mean by "echo for users".  Please clarify, Gene.

(GENE NESTRO) < /USERS >

(Host Phil) and then what?

(GENE NESTRO) ECHO FKEY5

(Host Phil) Do you have SS back now?

(GENE NESTRO) OPPA!!!!...yes.  forgot the Command NOECHO.

(Host Phil) Yes, it interacts with whether the label line is on and hitting F5 will
  toggle labels, but you should be able to get back gracefully.
  FYI -- we are talking of James Yi's breakthru code now in TEL200.LDR,
  TEL100.LDR & XMDPW4.100 to do split screen.

(Paul Globman) I'm using TEL200 now  and I like it!

(Host Phil)  Well, wish I could try it.  The key LCD code in TEL200 is not
  available in M100 ROM, so we have a different less exotic implementation.
  Tom -- you have a question or problem?

(Paul Globman) Phil, I thought you had the T200 version.

(Tom) Sorry to interrupt, this is my first time out.

(Host Phil) [Tom send Q for question C for comment, ga for Go Ahead]
  No, I am M100 bound (exept for my MS-Dos laptops -- Grin!)

(Tom) Q... How do I get this display to displayas I type?

(Host Phil) Tom, need more info.  What is not happenign that should?

(Tom) I dont see what I have just typed until aftrer I press enter. Is that
  normal?

(Host Phil) Which computer and which software?

(Paul Globman) need full duplex!

(Tom) I'm ususing a M100 with xmdpw4.

(Host Phil) You should see it along the bottom of the screen as a line, and then
  see it above the bottom line when you hit enter.  Is that what is happening?

(Tom) Yes, so if thats normal pls excuse my typing.

(Host Phil) That is the whole idea of split screen -- and why on the M100 version

(GENE NESTRO) ?NAME gene

(Host Phil) you need the /noecho cmd.  Gene -- why are you sending ?NAME?
  We could have told you your name, just ask!

(Paul Globman) he's shifting the "/"

(gene) sorry, just wanted to get Last Nm off.

(Wayne Scott) I HAVE BEEN USING PIXTEL.CO FOR A WHILE AND LOADED TEL100.CO
  INTO RAM, AND THEY BOTH WON'T RESIDE THERE TOGETHER.  WHY, OR HOW CAN THEY
  BOTH RESIDE THERE?

(Host Phil) Well, what you need to do is have PIXTEL loaded into its running
  address, and then run TEL100.BA to load just under current HIMEM (which
  should be below 62960.  That should work OK.

(Wayne Scott) I'LL TRY THAT. THANKS!

(Eiji) [good morning]

(Host Phil) HI Eiji -- which computer are you in with?

(Eiji) [AT]

(Host Phil) [no spirit of adventure!]

(Eiji) [Turned off MEM switch on 200; the modem doesn't work on that]

(Paul) Is anyone experimenting with bank switching in the 200 either RAM or
  OPTION ROM?

(Host Phil) Eiji, how about you?  Tony is our resident T200 'maven' and I just
  don't know.  James Yi is another possiblity.  What do you mean, beyond the
  obvious, Paul?

(Paul) No, I'm talking about using the other two banks as ram disks and
  read/write to bank #2 or #3 from bank #1.

(Host Phil) Ah yes -- in the manner of the PCSG RAM banks for the 100.  Hmmm, don't
  think I've seen anything on that topic in the Forum.

(Paul) I'm not familiar with that.

(Eiji) I haven't heard anyone doing that; but it would be nice to have.

(Host Phil) PCSG does have capability to access DO files in one bank from a BA pgm
  running in another.  Never have tried it, but there are files in the DL's
  which make use of that capability.  Done Paul?

(Paul) Since I got the SAFE+Sardine, I've been doing some studying of the ROM.
  I am currently disassembling the ROMPAK Rom from TSI.

(Host Phil) Sounds like a fun project!

(Bill Heiman) Phil, I'm trying to use the TEL100.LDR but it doesn't seem to
  work.

(Host Phil) Well, that is not much to go on!  What does it do and not do?

(Bill Heiman) I'm using it on a 102, and it seems to load ok, but when I'm in
  CO and push shift/F1, I just get a previous screen.

(Host Phil) Are you running TEL100 from menu or TELCOM?

(Bill Heiman) from menu

(Host Phil) Which one, TELCOM or TEL100.CO?

(Bill Heiman) the short CO program.  When I run it, it puts me in telcom.

(Host Phil) Short = 1600 bytes, I hope!  BTW -- make sure label line is ON when you
  do SHIFT-F1.  Puts you in TEL100.CO, just looks like TELCOM!

(GENE NESTRO) That was my comment (Label line).

(Host Phil) Give tht a try, Bill!

(Bill Heiman) ok, now its working good.  the label line did it.

(GENE NESTRO) Hmmm, the Label Line is critical.

(Host Phil) Ok -- better document that!

(Bill Heiman) yes it is.

(Paul) It would seem that if everyone used this; then, we could all send when
  we wanted, and the buffer would just intermix the conversations.

(Host Phil) Welll, doesn't work that way, quite!  Msgs are often multiple lines
  and they would get all garbled.  I've had split screen on PC's for a while,
  and "all sending at once" still creates chaos!

(Paul) With a 132 chr buffer (thats 3 lines), we could each get a complete
  thought each transmission.

(GENE NESTRO) I just checked your Doc (XMDPW4.Inf) & I had with others the
  same problem (Label Line on).  Methinks maybe, as otheres use the prog,
  You could add that specisl "Phill Wheeler" touch.
  < split screen or no split screen - I still make typyo's >

(Host Phil) Jeezzz.  XMDPW4 has been "touched" untill it's about 4K (in fact more).
  So I probably will rest on it for a while, but the docs do need to be fixed.
  Code looks at label toggle byte, and if labels are on does a PREV.
  BTW -- Paul, how dare you suggest my thoughts are only 132 bytes!  <grin!>

(Paul) I'd be willing to give up 3 lines at the bottom of the screen to
  display 120 bytes of the 132.

(Bill Heiman) I also noted that the ECHO has to be on when initiating it.

(Host Phil) Huh...that is a printer thing, and not needed.  Clarify, Bill.

(Bill Heiman) Well, I just hit labels to check if the download was lit, and I
  went out of the mode and tried to get it back and couldn't until I set the
  /echo back on.

(Wayne Scott) [same thing happened to me]

(Host Phil) Oh, you mean echo in the CIS software, not on label line.

(Bill Heiman) Yes.

(Host Phil) [not on a 200, Paul! -- paul has 132 byte ideas!]  [not on a 100, I
  meant!]

(Paul) I have an excellent idea 'crunch' algorythm.

(GENE NESTRO) That was my initial?...but now I find that the Label Line MUST
  be engaged (ON YOUR Screen) for re entry of SHILFT F1.

(Host Phil) Well, the correct thing is to do the toggle to label line by hittng
  SHIFT-F1.  Then do your thing, and hit SHIFT-F1 to get back split screen.
  You should be able to stay in the /noecho mode here, but you won't see
  anything you type, I guess.

(GENE NESTRO) [WORKS like a Charm.  Thankx Phil (another Phil W special)]

(Host Phil) Actually, very much a James Yi Special.  i jsut did convert to Model
  100 and oput it into XMD.

(GENE NESTRO) You other fellows w/same prob---try Phils suggestion NOW.

(Bill Heiman) Phil, what I meant was I had to be in echo mode to initiate it
  then switch back to noecho.

(Host Phil) But that does not make any sense -- nor does it jibe with my
  experience.  I have done it in both orders with no difficulty.

(Paul) I find that I can enter an idea in 123 bytes and when I'm ready to
  transmit, I hit the LABEL key to suspend the buffer.

(Host Phil) [Hey, down to 123 byte ideas, now -- Crunched!]  [yes, Paul?]

(Paul) When you acknowlegde me, I hit LABEL again and the <enter> to
  send.  This should cut down on the wait time between pauses.

(Host Phil) Well, it does depend on what else is happening here, who else is
  sending Send Q for question, C for comment, ga for go ahead.

(Paul) I don't mind if anything is coming in while I'm typing.  I just read
  the screen before sending.

(Host Phil) True -- do that myself and sometimes need a ^U as a result!

(Paul) Didn't ya ever read messages on a BBS where you can't traverse the
  thread?  That's what it would be like here.

(Host Phil) Any topics, quesions, etc.  No slides today, 'cyz no macro in this
  thing.  Well, Paul, that just isn't the way the Sysops want to have it
  happen!  Especially hard on an 8-line screen, in any case!

(Bill Heiman) Tried it again and my 102 has to be in echo mode to initiate.

(Eric W) good mornin'

(Host Phil) Ummm...the /echo is not a mode of your computer, but of CIS Conf
  Internal software could care less!

(Wayne Scott) Why don't somebody write a program to do fractual landscapes?
  Possible?

(Host Phil) Gee, I am not a graphics maven.  Anyone re the feasibiliity of fractals
  on a Model 100.  [very still!]  Suspect it takes lots of memory and
  processing power.

(Eric W) ?fractal lanscape?

(Host Phil) May want to look in DL6 re existing graphics stuff.

(Host Phil) I'm back -- sent a command by accidient!

(GENE NESTRO) Wayne, are you a landscapper / nursery man?

(Host Phil) Now what does the truant Denny have to say for himself?  Treat us to a
  macro, Denny.  I didm't bringt any!

(Wayne Scott) no, just like graphics.

(GENE NESTRO) [I just got him down to 112 byte ideas]

(Host Phil) Hmmm...Denny is vy quiet!

(GENE NESTRO) Wayne, did you try GO PICS on CIS?

(Wayne Scott) sure did. I spend a lot of time there.

(GENE NESTRO) Well, there are 2 great progs on this SIG for printing them.

(Wayne Scott) I don't carry a printer with me.

(GENE NESTRO) WELL, you should!

(Wayne Scott) I drive a truck.

(Host Phil) Lot's of room in a truck!

(Denny Thomas) Hi guys- sorry - I have company that is just leaving.

(Host Phil) [laser prointer, at least!]

(GENE NESTRO) I have 2 printers in my truck.

(Wayne Scott) I have a dmp 130 at home.

(Host Phil) Hmmm...my dog chases trucks!

(GENE NESTRO) Well, use it.  See RLEPRT, TRSRLE, Xcopy

(Wayne Scott) I mash dogs!

(Eric W) I have a printer?  I have a daisy wheel printer Brother HR-1.
  Are there any formating programs which will work with it on the SIG?
  I need to underline.  I understand it's the same as a Diablo 630.  Anyone
  help?

(Host Phil) Eric, the first question is wheter the Brother hr-1 supports underline.
  If it does, there are several pgms here in DL2 which should work.  one is
  PRN100; do BRO PRN100 in DL2, and you can go to dl2 and do BRO/KEY=BROTHER.
  and maybe get some specail stuff.  My T-WORD manual does have such info, but
  I cannot see it just now.  If I find it, I will add a short comment in a few
  minutes.

(Eric W) Tried Brother.  All I get is stuff for the !@#$*^% Dot Matix Guys!
  I use NPrint currently but I can't get any print commands.

(GENE NESTRO) [Are we discussing Graphics or printer fonts, etc.?]

(Rowlfe) [gotta go all, company coming in the front door!]  [bye!]

(Host Phil) [Whatever!  Printer control]

(GENE NESTRO) Later, Rowlfe.

(Host Phil) Ok, Rowlfe.  Enuff on that, Eric?

(Eric W) Sure, anything helps.  Thanks!

(Bill Heiman) I didn't have anything.  Gene does.

(GENE NESTRO) Woods Martins' PRTEXT.BA will work for any printer.  PRT100 is
  excellent, but M/L.

(Host Phil) Yes, PRTEXT is outstanding, as are all of Woods' programs there is also
  PRINT.QIK.  All are in DL2, Eric.  The issue may be in what capabilities the
  printer has as much as in the software.

(GENE NESTRO) [Don't forget WORPRO, I forget the author.]

(Bill Heiman) [Phil, this TEL100 is neat!]

(Host Phil) Yeah, makes COing a breeze!  WORPRO -- Eiji, was that you?

(Eric W) thanks, guys.  PRINT.QIk is n go!  I 'll try the others!

(Eiji) Yes, but it's very slow compared to the new text formatters.

(GENE NESTRO) [just wanted to get E J out of the woodwork (my I's eyes are
  not working.]

(Host Phil) [worked!]

(BOB H.) WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN T102 AND T200 SYSTEM BUS?

(Host Phil) Hmmmm...boy, maybe this will get Denny out of the woodwork!

(Paul) They should be the same!

(Denny Thomas) Well, they are very similar, pin for pin.  I think they are the
  same.  But there is a difference in the fact that there is a buffer on some
  of the lines of the T102.  This has been the source of much agravation for
  3rd party vendors in that it keeps them from developing 'interrupt driven'
  peripherals.  Probably one of the main reasons for the demise of the
  Chipmunk.

(Host Phil) Yes, indeed.

(BOB H.) Would the vault work on the 200?

(Host Phil) Denny knows.

(Denny Thomas) No, but not because of the bus difference.  It has a different
  ROM operating system which there has been no software written for.

(Bill Heiman) [Gotta go Phil, thanks for TEL100.]

(Host Phil) [cu bill, welcome!]

(Host Phil) The vault and other developments are exciting stuff.  I have the 256k
  PG setup.  ANY DAY NOW they will have software to make it contiguous.  But I
  like it in banks.  More robust against the dread cold start!
  Any Q's or C's left out there?  Tom, do you have a question?

(TOM) OH, THERE YOU ARE.  I THINK I HAVE FIGURED OUT MY PROBLEM.

(Host Phil) Tell us more, Tom!

(TOM) THE ECHO LETS ME USE THE SPLIT SCREEN, RIGHT?

(Host Phil) Well, you should send /noecho TO GET IT RIGHT.

(TOM) OK, BUT NOW I CAN'T SEE WHAT I'M TYPING AGAIN.  WELL, I GUESS IT'S OK
  THAT WAY.

(Paul) What is all this about /echo?  I haven't done a thing and all is
  perfect.

(Host Phil) The /noecho cmd is needed by the M100 version which does not have the
  same buffer as the 200 version.  I tried to implement that version but the
  code was so extensive command in ROM -- apparently the reason why the 200
  has a much faster screen.  (Or one of the reasons.)  In the M100 version,
  you will get chars at the label line and at the top, both as you type,
  unless /noecho is enabled.

(Paul) I just put /echo, and now /noecho.  aha!  They both will do fine!

(Host Phil) Right, Paul.  It makes no nevermind with the 200 version.

(Paul) /noecho seems neater.

(Host Phil) It is time to call it a Conference.  I hereby call these proceedings
  to a close.


List of Participants:

  70156,1575  WAYNE T.
  70346,1267  Stan W
  70721,327   Marty T
  71266,125   Phil
  72216,512   GENE NESTRO
  72227,1661  Paul
  72276,2454  Wayne Scott
  72300,3072  Bill Heiman
  72316,647   R Caley
  72737,2150  Will Linden
  73720,3563  Gary P.
  74405,1177  rowlfe
  75046,2325  Jon O
  75725,1130  Curtis
  76077,1444  Tom Sponheim
  76626,225   BOB H.
  76672,577   Eric W
  76701,40    Denny Thomas
  76703,4311  Eiji