9:00:12 AM PST Sunday, December 13, 1987

(Sysop Tony) No special Topic for today: Your choice.  Hello, Gary.

(Gary Parfitt) hello

(R Caley) [Hi, Guys]

(Sysop Tony) Good morning, Rush, Martin.  Anyone have a question or comment
  to get us started?

(R Caley) OK  I have been VERY lazy and have not tried the split screen yet.
 Is it a big deal to figure out how to install  on the D/VI for me to try?

(Sysop Tony) Oooo... what a question!  I don't know if any of the versions are
  compatible with the DVI.  Which computer are you using? The 100?

(R Caley) Yes..M-100

(Sysop Tony) The 100 and 200 versions are quite different,  although they
  achieve the same end result.  I've looked at the code, and I think it should
  be relocatable to operate under the DVI's DOS.  But can't guarantee it.
  In the 200, its a mirror of the existing TELCOM,  but in the 100's version
  (TEL101), I'm not sure.  You should check with Phil on that.  I do know that
  his "complete" telcom emulator, XMDPW5 is  a much more complex program,
  which just happens to include the split screen, since that all came about
  when he was working on it, he just added it in.  But I don't think anything
  has been designed so you get split-screen on  the DVI's CRT.

(R Caley) I guess there's no advant}iage. I don't even  know what's supposed to
  be on either side of the "split".  done.

(Marty T) I was just going to say I installed split screen yesterday  And it
  works great!!!

(Sysop Tony) Which version?

(Marty T) The only problem is I'm probably not going to be able to  keep it
  installed. I need the space during the week.

(Sysop Tony) Well, it's easy to kill it, and reload whenever you need it.

(Marty T) [The 200 version]

(Sysop Tony) Not many of us leave such goodies installed all the time.

(Sysop Denny) Hi guys.

(Phil) [Hi all!]

(Sysop Denny) Phil has made a patch file for the DVI and XMDPW5  so they will
  work together.  I don't know if anyone has tried the DVI with TEL101  But in
  any case, since Phil is here, done.

(Sysop Tony) But does the split-screen capability show up on the CRT?

(Sysop Denny) nope

(Phil) No!  That was the message:  It just prevents a disaster that Leonard
  identified.  It does not make the CRT work in split screen

(Sysop Tony) I guess our DVI users are going to have to get together  and
  modify a version for the CRT screen themselves. .... As you know,  it's
  difficult to design a program for a system you don't have access to.  Any
  more on this, Rush?

(R Caley) No thanks...except I'm still interested  as to what's on either side
  of the "split".

(Sysop Tony) Ah.  Well, the bottom line on the LCD scrolls horizontally,
  showing your keyboard input.  The stuff that's coming back at you  from
  Compuserve shows on the top 7 lines.  (15 on the 200) When you hit a CR at
  the end of your keyboard input, it "pops up" on to the top part of the
  screen as it's echoed back from CIS.  It prevents folks "breaking in" on your
  keyboard input as you're typing.  Looks neater, too.

(R Caley) ok..done..

(Phil) [Right!]

(Gary P>) I own a 600... any chance for split screen capabilities for me?

(Sysop Tony) None whatsoever.  There is no one programming in machine language
  for the 600.  It's too difficult, and the machine is so hardware bound, you
  can't get into the system to make it work.  Sorry.

(Gary P>) that's what I thought. Oh well.

(Sysop Tony) As I mentioned to Phil in a recent message  it's too bad about
  the 600.  It COULD have been a great machine but someone's lack of
  foresight,  or someone's sense of secrecy, killed it's chances.
  Nowdays, making a machine with a closed architecture, so programmers and
  hackers can't get to it, is a really dumb move!  Not everyone  is willing to
  wait for the developers to come out with all the neat programs that make
  these computers really useful tools.

(Phil) Begging Tony's indulgence,  If the 600 had been brought out originally
  as an MS-DOS machine it would have been a year ahead of the pack and would
  have still been going strong. (given Tandy's marketing system)

(Sysop Tony) Oh, I agree!  If Tandy had brought out the 600 with MS-DOS,
  they'd have been a leap ahead of everyone else, as they were with the 100.

(Gerald G) There may be things that we do not know, ie, did Tandy have the
  technology, factories, marketing etc. a year ago?

(Sysop Tony) Well, as I understand it, there was over a year lead time ...

(Phil) [Gee, something we don't know?? <grin!>]

(Sysop Tony) in the development of the 600.  And it's an import from Japan,
  too.  And it seems, at least to me, that the software  was an "adaptation",
  (read: boogering up!)  of Microsoft's MS-WORKS.  They could just have
  easily boogered up MS-DOS!.  (grin)

(Gerald G) Nothing else on  this topic.

(Sysop Tony) OK... back to the drawing board.

(Phil) Tony  as you remember we always have a strong CO when we have a special
  guest wohnder what ideas folks might have on that.  Example: vendors. Or
  maybe well known people who use or have used a 100/200 (or even 600 Grin!).
  Just noodling! ga

(Sysop Tony) Well, that's not a bad idea.  The principal runners in the
  support field are so few,  and at least two of them have expressed the
  opinion that online support was not worth the money they put into it.  And
  it looks like the support is condensing into fewer and fewer companies, that
  having the same guests here time after time would seem self-defeating.  But
  a "Users CO" might not be a bad idea for a once in a while series.  Who
  did you have in mind?

(Phil) No one in particular  another thought might be a Topical CO on
  occasion.  for example, comm or WP or expansion ROMs, or the NODE stuff, or
  sumpin!

(Sysop Tony) Well, we've tried a couple of "topical CO's", and found that  1)
  Not enough interest in a specific topic to hold an entire CO, and 2) many
  folks dropped by with other questions, and didn't want to wait while the
  main topic dragged on and on, anyway. 

(Sysop Denny) I was thinking about Soundsight (originally the Bubble people)
   who have come up with a new ram expansion.  We haven't heard anything from
  them at all, and I wonder if anyone would be interested in a CO with them?

(Sysop Tony) They were scheduled a couple of times, and either begged off at
  the last minute, or didn't show.  We're willing, but it looks like they
  aren't.  But if you want to contact them do so.  They're in your neck of the
  woods.  ga Phil ga

(Phil) Also  Node might be another (no on-line support, but might do a CO).

(Sysop Denny) [true]

(Sysop Tony) Yeah... and they're in MY neck of the woods.  About 60 or 70
  miles down the road towards San Francisco.  I guess i could pop over there
  and have a talk with them. 

(Sysop Tony) Anyway, if you want to arrange such a CO, do it.  We can always
  get the demo PPN from Wayne.  Any more on this topic?

(Phil) Nope

(Sysop Tony) Wonder how the company in Irvine is doing,  the one that
  developed the PIC disk system for the 100.  And CPM, etc.  Don't hear much
  about them recently.  That dry-spell with no magazine really hurt a bunch of
  the third-party support.  Lot of them closed up and started supporting other
  machines.  Now that the magazine is back,  they're no longer interested in
  the portables. ..... Case in point: Acroatix, who decided not to develop a
  second generation DOS for the TDD. Custom Software has apparently sold all
  the marketing rights to it's software to another company.  Trying to get
  info re the Assembler, which seems to be the best one, and is well thought
  of around here.  ga Phil ga

(Phil) Yeah  there has been a major move by vendors and users to the MS-DOS
  portables it seems.  In the case of Acroatix, Ed was taking another full
  time job, due to lack of ability to distribute with no advertizing  and
  Powr-Dos & TMPC were his only products, and not exactly main stream, I
  guess.  Don't know what happened to Greg Susong (Custom Software) but I hope
  his assembler does'nt become unavailable: It is a good one!

(Sysop Tony) Apparently Greg is also going MS-DOS.  Guerri Stevens (who wrote
  the RENUMBER and BYTEFYTER programs) left a message giving the name of the
  new company who would be handling her programs but no info re the Assembler.

(Sysop Denny) Actually, not a question but a change of topic.

(Sysop Tony) OK.

(Phil) [good!]

(Sysop Denny) I went to the Touchbase Christmas party on Thurs. and saw
  their

(Sysop Tony) (We need a CT response - Change Topic!)

(Sysop Denny) new operation. I can say from seeing with my own eyes that
  the WorldPort 2400 is indeed in production and is shipping.
  Unfortunately, they are shipping in the 100's and the orders are comming  in
  the 1000's. This problem should be rectified by the end of Jan. ga

(Sysop Tony) One comment -- Why wasn't I invited?  Well, two comments  2400
  looks great for downloading large volumes of data but you can't read at that
  speed.  It'll save bucks on CIS for those who can download and read offline
  though.  But for anything that is interactive, ...

(Phil) [Ha..I can!]

(Sysop Tony) like CO's, or browsing the message board, etc, it would be too
  fast for most folks, and uneconomical.  ga Phil

(Phil) I do read at 2400, and get most everything -- then stop for details
  if interested enuff.  But Denny -- they are shipping, but  can you
  attest to the fact that it is now 100% working???

(Sysop Tony) (Phil Wheeler... charter member of the Evelyn Woods Computer
  reading school)

(Sysop Denny) Er, well, er, no.

(Sysop Tony) And where are they getting "thousands" of orders from?

(Phil) [Model 100 users and vendors! <grin>]

(Sysop Denny) They are OEM`ing it to Black Box in a `black box'

(Sysop Tony) That'll jack up the price.

(Sysop Denny) The latest update that I got from them Thurs was supposed
  to be the production software, but there was a slight glitch that has to  be
  ironed out. Should be rolling next week.  They are shipping with a slightly
  earlier version of the software that is still a production ver. but not
  "enhanced" ga

(Sysop Tony) Two questions..... With the well known 600 baud LCD limitation,
   Are buyers getting something that allows them to turn off the screen
  scroll?  and, what about the 102's upside down problem?  Have they fixed
  that, or do they just send you a 29 cent mirror?

(Sysop Denny) They have been talking about sending out something like QHAYES
   to deal with M100 folk. And with the new modem  there is no reason to look
  at the lights anymore since you have a *very tiny* speaker that lets you
  know what's going on. ga

(Sysop Tony) Miracle of miracles. ... I remember when the "Touchbase"
  was a board you mounted internally in the NEC.  Then a cigarette-case size
  box you plugged into the back. Etc.  They are really developing the product.

(Sysop Denny) Yes,  the owner is very embarrased when asked about the original
  Travelcomm mode that wasn't ANYTHING compatible.  His excuse was that he
  developed it in his garage.

(Phil) I  kinda like the lights, Denny.  Does the tinny(!) speaker announce
  "low battery, change it!" when that happens?

(Sysop Tony) (Probably a 5/16" woofer and a 1/16" tweeter.)

(Sysop Denny) No, it just drops you offline like before.  I think the best
  solution is to get an extension cable ...

(Phil) [Progress!]

(Sysop Denny) that lets you put the modem anywhere you want.
  I had to use one for a while because the only modems available were
  for IBM (female connector)  and I got used to it and didn't mind it a bit.
  It was actually more convienent.

(Sysop Tony) Interesting that nobody ever developed anything like the NEC's
  SIDECAR device for the 100.  I mean something that mounted off to the side
  of the keyboard.

(Phil) Think I'm  interested in an upgrade, Denny.  Any info on upgrade of
  my current WorldLink 1200 to the 2400 version?

(Sysop Denny) It would be at the $199 price and you can get it directly from
  Touchbase in NJ. The factory in LA doesn`t handle any of the sales.  I don't
  know how long it would take to get one, however. ga

(Sysop Tony) (Hmmm... Factory in LA, Offices in NJ?  Strange!)

(Phil) Low cost labor!  Well, the time is not critical

(Sysop Denny) [like PCSG and Mike Anders]

(Phil) unless you sned the old one and wait for several months for  the new
  unit! ga

(Sysop Tony) Which MIGHT Happen, if they're getting so many orders.

(Sysop Denny) There's no need to send yours in. You can do the update
  yourself. ga

(Phil) Say more!  How?

(Sysop Denny) The part that makes the 1200 -> 2400 is a board that is on
  connectors and you just pry off the old board and put on a new one.  You can
  disassemble your current one to see how it works.

(Sysop Tony) (With my luck, a disgruntled worker would have glued the board on
  with Super-Glue)

(Phil) [Speaker on that board?  New label, etc?]

(Sysop Denny) No new label, but yes, the speaker is on the new board. YOU'LL
  know that it's 2400 baud. (grin)  [At that price, I'm not sure if you have
  to send back the old board at all]

(Phil) [hope ATM0 works!]

(Sysop Tony) Any more on this topic?

(Phil) NOOOOO!

(Sysop Denny) There is a switch for the speaker.
  Done

(Sysop Tony) Anyone have a new topic they want to discuss?

(Phil) [gotta take my white dog to the vet in a bit]

(Sysop Tony) (He's running a fever.  Hot Dog!)

(Phil) [ugh]

(Bill Heiman) Q for Phil, Is tel100 still in the dls now that tel101 is out?  someone ...

(Phil) Gee, I don't know. Think I asked Denny to zap  it.  Why?

(Bill Heiman) told me they looked for tel100.ldr and couldnt find it.

(Sysop Denny) [its gone]

(Bill Heiman) It's a goood prog. how many bytes does tel101 consume ?

(Phil) It's around 2K.  In fact I think it and TEL100 are  about the same
  length, do to more efficient use of ROM stuff in the new one.  And it adds
  diracc & macros.

(Bill Heiman) O.K.  thanks Phil  done

(ron) What do you use the macro's for?

(Sysop Tony) For sending lines and lines of stuff, or typing repeatative information.

(Phil) [Tony, a demo!]

(Sysop Tony) Here's one now...
   -----------------
  |                 |
  |     @#@#@#@     |
  |    # ^   ^ #    |
  |    -(o)-(o)-    |
  |    (  _U_  )    |
  |     \ `-' /     |
  |      \___/      |
  |                 |
   -----------------
    The Great ynoT

(Phil) [nothing useful, in other words!]

(Sysop Tony) Well!

(Bill Heiman) [ha-ha]

(ron) Was that a demo of the macro's?

(Sysop Denny) [gee, a new picture, looks like a balding one at that!]

(Sysop Tony) Yes, that was a demo of one of the macros I currently have in RAM.
  Want to see some more?

(Bill Heiman) [slide time]

(ron) Yeah!

(Sysop Tony) Nah... I'm blessed with lots of hair. ...  They'll probably have
  to dig me up and beat it to death after I'm dead.  OK, here are some
  more macros:

  Use CTRL-C to exit back to the forum; but stay! You might learn something new.

  We have prepared a file on that subject, which provides greater detail than
  we can in this conference situation. To read the file, type the three letter
  group B;4 at the main menu function prompt  (where you can read or leave
  messages) and press the ENTER key.   The file will be sent immediately.
  Suggest you echo a copy to your printer for later review. (Turn on your
  Printer and press the F5 button)  OK?

  Expanding RAM is a common interest of many users, so we have prepared files
  on the subject that cover much more than we can here. Depending on your
  interest, see EXPAND.RAM (100-200) or EXPAND.102, or if you want a LOT of RAM
  space, see BIGRAM.INF. (all in DL13)  For the 600, see EXPAND.600 in DL11. 
  There are several new RAM expansion products available for the 100/102 PCSG
  has a 256K unit that gives you 8 "banks" which can be used the same as
  the original bank. Node Computers has a 256K bank that can be used as one
  continuous bank, to store large files, much as you would on a disk. See the
  file NODE.REV in DL13.  And PG Designs is advertising one called the "Vault"
 as in "Storage Vault".  See VAULT.THD in DL13.  Traveling Software has  just
  announced one that can hold up to 2 megabytes of RAM, and several ROM's. 
  See the file BOOSTR.PRD in DL13.

  There are several choices in alternate DOS's which will make the TDD-1 much
  more useful.  See the file DISKOS.INF in DL13 for starters and follow up with
  the files recommended there.

  Shall I continue, or is that enough?  ga Ron ga

(ron) How do you access the macro's?

(Sysop Tony) Function key.

(Bill Heiman) Don't be fooled...  Tonys a fast typist.

(ron) Is there a DOC on this?

(Sysop Tony) See MACROS.DOC in DL3.

(Phil) Wait, tony, ...  not use F key in Tel101 or xmdpw5.  Ron...

(Sysop Tony) Weren't talking about TEL101 or XMDPW5, specifically.

(ron) Yes?

(Sysop Tony) Was talking about MY use of macros.

(Phil) what program are you using?

(ron) Tel101

(Phil) OK  should be data in TEL101.INF.  If not look at XMDPW5.INF.  Tells
  how to create the XMDMAC.DO file and how to send macros very terse, however!

(ron) Thanks,Phil

(Sysop Tony) Original question: What do you use macros for?  I stressexD2 the
  USE in that question.

(Phil) I seldom use them, except when hosing a CO

(Bill Heiman) [I just got hosed]

(Sysop Denny) [is that garden or fire?]

(Phil) (that's "hosting!").  It really is a personal thing.

(Sysop Tony) Well, macros is a kind of useless thing,  unless you need them,
  then they're indispensible.

(ron) What does "byte-fyte" mean?

(Sysop Tony) Well, it's a phrase  that has developed to describe the proces of
  editing programs so they consume the least amount of space in RAM (Fighting
  the "bytes")

(Bill Heiman) Q [Phil]

(ron) Thank you,O mighty Centurian!

(Phil) [Goin to the dogs (doctor). Bye!]

(Bill Heiman) Phil don't go yet  can the macros also be used to answer an
  EMail letter.

(Sysop Tony) Phil left

(Bill Heiman) shucks

(Sysop Tony) But macros can be used anytime, anyplace, where you need to
  type in repetative information.  In my original macros version, they are
  supported only in TELCOM and BASIC but in the newest programs, they are
  supported in TELCOM, BASIC and TEXT.  So you can use them anywhere.
  However,  if you need a group of macros to answer Email, You'd probably
   be better off making a file, and just uploading the file.

(Bill Heiman) sorry tony I.. answerd you in the middle of yours  done

(Sysop Tony) OK.

(ron) How do you make those "fuzzies"(ASCII-toons),Tony?

(Sysop Tony) The one I sent as a "face" was just a "typewriter" picture.
  Based on the old technique of making a picture with regular typewriter
  characters.   You just go into TEXT, and play around til you get what you
  want.  There are some illustrations of this technique in DL6 I think.
  forgot where we put them.  There is at least one nice Christmas card for the 200 screen.

(ron) Neato! Can I do it with LCDraw?(grin)

(Sysop Tony) Probably not.  the drawing programs use pixel graphics,  and you
  can't send or transfer pixel graphics.  You have to use the regular ascii
  characters.

(ron) What about Kermit?

(Sysop Tony) There is no Kermit for the portables yet.  I understand one is
  being worked on,  but it's not available yet.

(ron) OK.done

(Sysop Tony) OK.... Get ready, here comes a macro...

  Send}i a "Q" to ask a question, or a "C" to comment on current topic.

  So, Ron, you have bought the LCDraw program?

(ron) Yes, and it is neat!

(Sysop Tony) There may be a way to save the pictures  as RLE files, and then
  you could transfer or upload those files, and  others could see them.  I
  believe there is some info on how to do that ...

(ron) You can get graphics and text on the same screen and save the image as a
  CO file

(Sysop Tony) in a file in DL3.  So why don't you try to get that all working,
  and send us some pictures?

(ron) You also can alter the printout to various sizes  I understand that they
  will also be coming out with a type font loader for it It looks like a very
  versatile graphics program for the 100
  one that is easy to use and fairly powerful  compared to the "freebies"
  in the graphics DL It only supports several printers right now  mainly the
  IBM, Epson and Tandy dot matrix printers I am going to try it on a laser
  (LP-1000) in IBM or Tandy DMP mode and see what happens More about this next
  week.

(Sysop Tony) How about writing us a "Review file" for DL13 on the program?  No
  one has done one yet.  and it might generate a lot of interest in the
  program and technique ...

(ron) When would you like it?

(Sysop Tony) as well as exchanging picture files via the forum.  Whenever you
  want to do it.  Just do it, and upload it to DL13.

(ron) OK

(Sysop Tony) There was a lot of interest in the RLE picture stuff when it was
  first brought out.

(ron) I wonder! Can you upload "disassembled CO files?

(Sysop Tony) You convert them to hex with one of the utility programs, and
  upload that.  When downloaded, the same program converts it back into CO
  form.

(ron) I will try converting a LCDraw CO file to Hex and see if I can convert
  it back. Maybe...?

(Eric) Morinin'!

(Sysop Tony) OK.  CHANGE.BA is often used, and there is another called HEXBIN.
  I think they should be in DL7 or DL8.

(ron) Ah! You'll need LCDraw to read it. There's the rub.

(Sysop Tony) Yeah, but with your review, and a mention of how much and where
  to get it,  maybe some more folks will buy it, to try it out.  Especially
  if you upload some picture files as "something to look at".

(ron) I demo'd it to the NYLUG(100 user group) and they were fascinated with
  it I got 2 users who saw definite practical applications for it and were
  going to buy it.

(Sysop Tony) You also might be surprised. ... there may be a bunch of folks
  who have it, and don't use it.  Maybe they never thought of sharing picture
  files before.  And  a few here would generate interest.  They'd have to get
  the program  to view them.

(ron) A true artist could get really creative and by eliminating the border
  could piece together a wall-size mural consisting of screen-size elements
  might make for an interesting jig saw puzzle series you know. "Get the next
  piece at next weeks session" It certainly creates new uses for our little
  "limited notebook computers".

(Sysop Tony) Yes, much of modern art is simply repeated patterns.  Look at all
  the Arabian-influenced stuff.  Which reminds me we have a very interested
  program called "POOL" in DL6,  that draws that sort of stuff.  And even a
  file of "recommended" patterns. 

(Jeff S) [how can a program be interested?]

(Sysop Tony) (OK, "interesting") Well, it's about time to close this CO.
  Any last questions?

(ron) I saw it. Fascinating. Too bad I can't get a screen dump.

(Sysop Tony) So for final question, ga Eric

(Eric) Gee thanks, it's a little Q. as an artist how do you output this stuff?

(Sysop Tony) You have an answer, Ron?  ga Ron

(ron) Good question  It gets printed to a dot matrix printer  with graphics
  capabilities I use a Tandy DMP 130
  but an IBM Proprinter or an Epson FX with graphics mode will also work

(MARVIN COOK) Hi. I'm Marvin.

(ron) More on this on my upcoming review of "LCDraw"(Elsie draw?grin).

(Eric) Ron, is there any way to generate a photographic negative that you can
  think of?

(ron) Not that I'm aware of

(Sysop Tony) Eric, if you want a photo of a drawing,  you really need to use a
  computer with a CRT screen, ...

(ron) unless you can upload it to a PC using one of those computervision
  boards.

(Sysop Tony) and a screen camera, or a screen image video printer.  It's a bit
  beyond the 100's capability, I think.

(ron) It might work!

(Sysop Tony) Let's see what Marvin wants.  ga Marvin

(MARVIN COOK) Ron, where is your review of LCDraw going to be. I'm interested
  in buying it.

(Sysop Tony) It will be in DL13 after it's written.

(ron) I have just been appointed to review it. Maybe next week.

(Sysop Tony) Any more questions?  We're running overtime this week.

(MARVIN COOK) Nope. Thanks.

(ron) LCDraw is available from  Lonestar Software & IC Design  Matthew Bates
  is the creater and you can contact him at 609-734-3361  the program costs
  $49.95. More next week.

(MARVIN COOK) Thanks so much!

(Sysop Tony) 100/102 and 200 versions separate, or do they both come as one?

(ron) 100/102 only,so far.

(Sysop Tony) Well, maybe someone can convert it for the 200.  It would be
  great there.

(ron) Yes.

(Sysop Tony) So I'll end the formal conference now.  Feel free to stick around
  and chat further, if you like.  Thanks for coming this morning, we
  appreciate your input.   Bye.

   *** END OF FORMAL CONFERENCE ***

(Eric) ron can you stick around for a minute?

(Sysop Tony) He's already gone.


 List of Participants:

  71266,125   Phil
  71470,2402  TOM ARENBERG
  72216,512   GENE NESTRO
  72300,3072  Bill Heiman
  72300,3645  ron
  72306,1776  mark northup
  72316,450   Karl
  72316,647   R Caley
  72407,3224  Marty T
  73117,2362  David H. Hawes
  73337,3000  BILL P.
  73337,541   MARVIN COOK
  73720,3563  Gary P>
  74016,1660  RALPH D.WALTHALL
  74346,2072  Tom C.
  74425,231   Gerald G
  75026,1004  Jim Kessler
  75755,1312  Jeff S
  76510,3721  Mike L.
  76672,577   Eric
  76701,40    Sysop Denny
  76703,4062  Sysop Tony