[Note: Major topic turned out to be the Tandy 200 portable computer.] 11:00:42 AM EST Sunday, March 31, 1985 (TonyA) I tried the increment counters in DL sections, they do not increment with every access; surmise they count up, and are updated once every 24 hours. (Sysop .^Dave^.) That is part of the reason I can't answer the question without extensive testing. When we get worked on daily for refreshing, and then when sysop comes on after 1900, it gets updated. (Jason R.) Question... (Jason R.) I may be working with the producer of a radio show in order to do a segment on portables...Any interesting things being done w/ M100s? (Sysop .^Dave^.) Okay Jason,,,,,,,, Hang on a bit for everyone to get their coffee and settle down in the easy chairs and I'll let them clue you in on their thoughts on that. (Sysop .^Dave^.) okay, lets get started. I'll let Jason lead off with his question and then you may all send a C if you can help him.... ga Jason ga 11:09:18 AM EST Sunday, March 31, 1985 (Sysop .^Dave^.) Good grief!! Lost Jason!!! (Sysop .^Dave^.) Guerri? Did you leave too? Just for your all information Her BYTEFYTER program is SOOPER-DOOPER indeed!! (Gerald G) I just wanted to ask what day the forumns are held. (Sysop .^Dave^.) Currently Gerald, there are no scheduled conferences .... other than this one. Hope to crank up some more formal types .... with specialists speaking & leading the discussion .... Everyone might comment on topics they would like to see covered. (mark n) anybody know how to recover bad cass files (Guerri) I am going to order a 200 tomorrow. Does anyone here have comments on it? (Sysop .^Dave^.) Guerri, if you don't scan the board suggest you try RS;S;200;0 command in order to see what is what; also some reviews in DL6. (Gerald G) I saw the 200 when I went to have my 100 upgraded to 32 k ram.... it is only slightly heavier then the 100, the multiplan program as you know, is built in. My reservation is that it is too easy to accidentally kill a file. Also, it only goes up tok instead of the 32 k of the 100, but it does have room for 3k ram memory banks. (Sysop .^Dave^.) Yep, major drawback is 19K limit at one time. (DaveW.) What processor does the 200 use? (Guerri) 80c85 (DaveW.) OK with the same processor [Thanks Guerri] the power of the 200 is about the same as the 100. The only advantage I see is the larger screen. Bank selected 24K RAMs are a drawback as others pointed out. If more memory is needed on the 100 you can get Bank selected 32K banks up to 128K that I've seen. Stick to the 100 it's well documented and a lot of software support... here on the Sig and third party. (Sysop .^Dave^.) Micro Demon is planning software to upgrade the 200 ... to the level of the 100. (rowlfe) first the comment: sure is a lot of controversy on the 200..... and not having seen one. Guerri, would you tell us why YOU are buying one, what twisted the knife which told you to buy? (Guerri) I am getting one because I have two software packages for the 100... to convert and it'd be very difficult without one. MY own impression from limited hands-on experience is that I don't care for the tilt-up screen - it's difficult to get the lighting right and there is something peculiar about the keyboard, aside from the new arrangement of some keys which drives me crazy! I haven't had a chance to investigate MSPLAN yet or any of the other... new features. I sure hope they make up for the reduction in RAM! (rowlfe) WEll,.... chalk up another reason not seen on the message board, business. I was wondering what the big deal was on the 200 and why people were so vocal that had decided to buy. Thanks, Guerri. (Guerri) As a 100 owner, I am disappointed in what I've seen of the 200 so far. (remember, with only limited experience). I wish they had addressed the RAM problem in a better way, for example. I suspect that a 1st-time buyer will be happy with the 200 though. (John S. Krueger) Ill buy a 1000 for as much! (TonyA) I think Tandy went the wrong way on the RAM in the 200. We need more active/available RAM not less. How do you make a disgusting sound on the keyboard??? (rowlfe) actually, a q.... now that I think of it, is the physical size of the machine very much different? I have not seen anyone comment on the dimensions. (Gerald G) the Tandy 200 is thicker than the Model 100 but not much heavier. (DaveW.) The memory problem has to do with the processor being used... the 80c85 processor can only direct access 64K; that means if you want... more RAM you must have less ROM without going to a different processor. (rowlfe) [so true] (TonyA) I know that, but the problem remains, the M100 is short on memory, and the M200 is worse. The limited RAM limits its usefullness. You can give me all the technical explanations why... but the fact remains, they are still short of memory! (mark n) the amount ork nf RAM is also due to extrah/w+s/w.... the processor allows amount of direct mem true,but not max. (Guerri) Why can't some parts of the ROM be switched in/out as needed? For example, I suspect MSPLAN works that way and don't see why TELCOM can't use the same technique and perhaps BASIC too. (TonyA) I know that, Mark! but the fact remains, the M100 is short on memory and the M200 is, too! Your argument is the same old line given by Tandy.... which does not address the issue. (DaveW.) Guerri, had a good suggestion of how they can increase memory with the same processor, but it would be a system programmers nightmare. Moving information around and possibility of loosing information would be tough to keep straight. (mark n) tony if you mean off the shelf,i agree, 4 megs of bank switched wont be enough. but tandy probably wanted to maintain portability+mem takes powerr. (TonyA) Dave, I don't buy that! Computers are famous for being able to manipulate data at speeds so rapid, it is almost imvisible. My Northstar can load the Basic interpreter and program in about 2 seconds, and start to execute the program. Mark, Do you imply that when one is looking for a computer, he should seek one that is "Expandable"? The amount of work one can do is dependent on the amount of RAM available, period! Bank switching is wonderful, but useless unless you can move data between banks. (mark n) more or less..yes...but.. all machines built that way or not... are modifiable to some degree and current chip technolo moves so fast... nobody knows what new chip or s/w package is next...seems to me. (DaveW.) First, Tony is your Northstar a disk system? (TonyA) Of course! (DaveW.) Then its operation would be comperable to Bank switching ROMs and storing information in other banks. We are talking about a stand alone system and computer power is a combination of RAM AND processor. (TonyA) Not necessarily so... My M100 is also a disk based system and the M200 is even more limited. Their usefulness is Therefore based on the available RAM. Try loading a 22K program in the M200. (rowlfe) [or text file!] (TonyA) You can, in a 32K M100 -- You' can't in a 72K M200. (DaveW.) I can do it on an 8K disk system. (Sysop .^Dave^.) [Tony = Take over for a bit please.] [You got it Tony?] (TonyA) ]Yes Dave, say Hi to Mad i[ (rowlfe) ok.... seems to me, based on what I've heard, seen.... that a M100 with the new 64k bank add-on is better than the M200 with 72k, and quite a bit cheaper without losing any of the portability that I value so highly, so I ask again, what is the big deal on the 200? (mark n) yes... 64K??? where?? (rowlfe) 64k bank add-on, PG designs and Cryptronics. (Gerald G) rs will not expand the M100 to two 32k ram banks. Who does? (rowlfe) [that's 3! 32k banks! (Gerald G) Okay if the M100 can be expanded to 3 32k ram banks who does it. RS will not. (rowlfe) PG designs sells an add-on which plugs into the hole in back which adds the extra banks. RS does not have anything to do with it. cost listed at $425 for 64k. (Sysop Tony) You can get 32 K bank, or a 64 K bank which is 2 32K banks. (rowlfe) [plus the 32k built in = 3] (Gerald G) Does pg advertise in Model 100 magazine? (Sysop Tony) [Yes - total = 96K, but only 32K available at one time.] Yes, Gerald, PGDesigns advertises in Portable .5 and PCM. (rowlfe) !!! bank xfer is supposed to be out as well!!! (Gerald G) How would the larger screen of the M200 affect a program such as City? (Sysop Tony) Gerald, Since City was written for the M100, it would not be runnable on the M200 without some re-writing. Micro D -- Ynot jump in with your opinions. (micro d) well, i like the display on the 200, but, i agree that the memory limitation of the m200 is a serious flaw, i really don't understand some of the decisions made on the design of the m200; i think a m100 with a bigger display would be the best deal. (Greg S) I agree with what David [micro d] said. the memory is the biggest problem; it especially irks me that with less memory available, they wasted space for twice as many file slots. I have never, ever totally filled up the directory on the 100. Who needs the extra slots? (rowlfe) [I've filled 'em!] (DaveW.) The display is nicer but does 40x16 actually gain anything..... the display need is for.... (rowlfe) [better for a spreadsheet if you use 'em] (DaveW.) wider and longer NOT just longer. Even spreadsheets are limited when the width is only 40 80x25 is much more usable. (Sysop Tony) What we really need is a video interface to give us 80x24 or so. (Gerald G) Do you mean Tony that the rs and sig programs written for the m100 will not run on the m200? (Sysop Tony) No, but a program that is designed for a specific screen display would not automatically be transferrable without some tinkering. (Maddi) On the 200 and 80x25 display, The 200 is/will be compatible with the DVI, as soon as Tandy releases new cable(!) and DOS. Then 80X25 display on monitor will be possible. & I note that one discounter is now selling DVI for $399! (DaveW.) Does anyone know the price of Axonix ThinView 25 portable 80x25 LCD screen for the M100? (rowlfe) [too much, $795, i think] (Greg S) 749 (micro d) why buy a m200 for the bigger display and then hook it up to the dvi for a bigger one, when you could already get the same effect with a M100? (rowlfe) [my comments from before STILL apply, even with DVI] (Corky ) STILL waiting with byted breath & plenth !%#%#@^ for PCSG to ship 64k unit! anyone heard/gotten anything? (Maddi) The context, of the comment, I believe, was with the use of Multiplan in the 200; it may be possible to increase to 80x25 with the DVI. (Corky ) [any 64K info?] (Sysop Tony) No one responded, Corky.... You are still the resident expert, knowing more than anyone else. (Corky ) [hah! useful!] (Sysop Tony) I found USEFUL.100 Useful! (rowlfe) sure.... (Sysop Tony) No, seriously.... (Corky ) [works FAST, tho!] (Sysop Tony) Well, I see by the clock on the arm, that Chit-Chat time has ended. As Dave would say, we should go to Yak-Yak mode..... Anyone who wishes to continue, stay and enjoy. (Sysop .^Dave^.) Thank you muchlee Tony .... see you another time. bye bye 1:02:28 PM EST Sunday, March 31, 1985 User ID Nod Handle ----------- --- ------------ 70250,211 LAP PETER 70506,1261 SIE Sysop Tony 70516,166 QAM JimQ 70635,1312 WCH Greg S 71036,1116 WPL Jason R. 71216,1564 QFK Eiji 71666,1175 IND Corky 71676,52 ORL Paul J 72236,2414 NYN GerryN 72276,2454 DAL WAYNE S. 72276,3505 NOL John S. Krueger 72306,1776 WPL mark n 72355,76 HLY AlanS 72746,1014 QAK John R 74405,1177 SDC rowlfe 74425,231 NYJ Gerald G 74756,552 FRS Bob H. 75515,1507 CBS micro d 75675,1220 HAR Guerri 75725,1204 CVL DAVE SCHNEIDER 75775,1430 QKC Don Z 75775,202 CAN DaveW. 76703,446 BTM Sysop .^Dave^.