10:59:17 AM EDT Sunday, June 1, 1986 (LARRY L) Can someone give me a quick rundown of how the DOS is accessed on the M100? (Sysop .^Dave^.) Which DOS?? There are at least five. (LARRY L) how bout the "stock" dos's from tandy and PCSG> (Sysop .^Dave^.) Ummmm ,,,, though I'll let Mike take a shot at answering methinks that Woods Martin would be best on the D/VI and Tim Ekdom on the Chipmunk. (Mike A.) Chipmunk DOS loads with Reset button and transfers the M/L DOS which can be programmed via Basic additons. definitely M/L pushed to the limits, but adds Basic words so you can write programs yourself..that answer the Q? (LARRY L) I just got an AJ microdrive which uses an invisible M/L prog with basic commands. but there seems to be a conflict with PCSG RAM...but the techie there says there is a fix in the works. (Sysop .^Dave^.) Larry all of that stuff is beyond me. we have a LOT of techie information in the DL 4 area, including a complete System Map of the 100 that takes up about 100K and also some smaller files with details on RST stuff Now DaveW here may be able to help too. Dave, query is on accessing various DOS from the Model 100. (LARRY L) what method is used to store the dos for the two major drives? rom or M/L? (DaveW.) Can't entirely speak for TDD. however, Chipmunk is stored in ROM and automatically uploaded to RAM in M/L form when the M100 is reset. All DOS's are m/l. (Sysop Tony) All the "DOS's" (which are not really DOS's) are written in machine language code. Some of them move MAXRAM to protect themselves, some only move HIMEM. (LARRY L) thats what i was gettin at..how they avoid conflicts. (DaveW.) How do they avoid conflicts with other m/l programs? Is that the question, Larry? (LARRY L) yes (DaveW.) Just as Tony explained, however, that does not insure lack of conflict if the other m/l programs are written for the same area of memory and are not relocatable (the majority would cause conflicts.) Other conflicts can come in even if the programs storage space is not the same. That is the new m/l program may try to use the same hooks as the DOS. (Sysop .^Dave^.) if you haven't yet got hold of the FLIPML.100 and .DOC program from DL 4, I suggest that you do so. It is a big help in keeping M/L files out of each others way. (Mike A.) Dave, how's about telling us about the trip out west..TS-land, etc. (Sysop .^Dave^.) Welll... T'was all a great ball starting with Phil Wheeler's personal hospitality for over two days and programming help derived from there. Then the really fine group of SIGers at the Santa Monica meeting where Tony and I met for the first time and had a fine pow-wow as well as a nifty meeting with Eiji, Denny, and many other SIG members. (Sysop Tony) [Laugh? I thought he'd never start!] (Sysop .^Dave^.) Santa Barbara's Group was most hospitable also and good time was spent there. In Seattle on the 19th Mark Eppley was a gracious host. Didn't discover any "great" truths there but Mark is well aware of the need for continued Traveling Software presence on the SIG. Ken Smith will be here on a "regular" basis. Tried to make it clear to Mark that we didn't consider once a week as "regular." (Mike A.) Thanks...Denny show ya the ROM Bank ? (Sysop .^Dave^.) Yes, I saw the ROM bank briefly. Sam Redman showed me one in October too. (joshua) I was wondering why all these ads I ve seen lately go gaga over the Tandy PDD. Its only 100k, couldn't they do better like the Chipmunk? (Sysop .^Dave^.) I understand precisely what you mean ... HOWsomeverwhichway, the TDD is a good product for the price. Methinks that, unfortunately, too many folks don't know what they are NOT getting. Similar to the Tandy 200. Still run into RSCC folks that think adding RAM to the 200 gives you 128K of contiguous RAM. (Mike A.) (snicker!) (Sysop .^Dave^.) The TDD is misrepresented by salesmen that should stick to battery sales. (Sysop Tony) (Like that quote, Dave) (joshua) y're talking to a T200 owner(smile when you say that) but I realize that 2ndary storage fages fills up real quickly. (DaveW.) [Buyer, beware.] (Sysop .^Dave^.) Tickled pink to meet and support understanding 200 owners. However, FACTS do not have to be apoligized for ..... Just the facts, ma'am .... Facts mean you never have to say you're sorry .... never nudge nonsense near knowledge .... (LARRY L) AARRGGHH!! (Sysop .^Dave^.) Larry? Plan to be in Princeton for the PCMfest in October!! (LARRY L) Dave..you talkin to me? (Sysop .^Dave^.) Yes Larry, was speaking to you about the Pcmfest in Princeton come October. Watch for news. I'll be there again. (PhilW) now that I have the Chipmunk I';ve decided to look into FORTH. Looks like we a ve a Forther or two here. What are it's pros and cons? Why should I learn it as another language? (Sysop .^Dave^.) Gollee phil, suggest that you query Mike Weiblen and Tim Ekdom; they are the big forthrighters around here. (PhilW) is anyone in here now who is into FORTH? (Sysop .^Dave^.) John R?? Are you a FORTH writer?? (PhilW) [deafening silence!] (John R) Nope. The major advantage of FORTH is that programs are transportable among many different machines. Otherwise, I would stick to BASIC for programs which are for just the Model 100. (RICH L) Does anyone here know if the new dos from ULTRA SOFT has the same saveall feature as TS-DOS? (Sysop .^Dave^.) Tony, any word about that Disk Power over the last few weeks?? (Sysop Tony) No additional information has been forthcoming. They have their own BBS for support, and there was one message to the effect it's integrated with Hugo's TEXT POWER. (Mike W) wondering if anyone liked and/or read my article in the April Portable 100/200/600 about the notebook power supply? Comments? (Sysop Tony) There was one SIG member at the LAUGH-IN who expressed a liking for it, and was going to build it, but he decided on a notebook with a zipper. That's all. (RICH L) Yesterday at our 100 meeting, there where 2 people that had them and a few more are going to make them. It was a well written article...and thank you very much. (Mike W) thanks its rewarding to know that at least someone read the thing. i have to go now, ^Dave^, so see you later. (Sysop .^Dave^.) Mike, keep in mind that folks don't say much if it works. Programs here are heard about only if they bomb. I've one program downloaded over 1,000 times and nary a word. (Mike W) Thanks for the kind words; no news is good news, i guess. (George V.W.) Speaking of bombing, I've been having some trouble with ASM.BA from DL 4 while trying to assemble a routine (about 1FA long) that ORGs at E000, I keep getting an uncoverable error in basic program message. According to the mem map that I downloaded from DL 4, it shouldn't be interfering with anything, though. any ideas? (Sysop .^Dave^.) do you have the entire System Map of seven files, over 90K, or just the short one? (George V.W.) dave.. yes I have 100ram rdc and 100rom rc0-6. tony clued me in to their existence. (Sysop .^Dave^.) Okay, just czeching .... (DaveW.) Did you clear the space out with the clear command first or does the program do it on its own? (George V.W.) Dave.. not sure. I thought that ASM cleared the space itself but I could be wrong. (DaveW.) If the program doesn't issue the CLEAR command you could be overwritting BASICs scratch-pad memory area. (George V.W.) My problem is that ASM crashes before it completes Pass 1 of the assembly. I haven't even been able to get it to give me a debugged listing. (Sysop .^Dave^.) assembley is not my bag at all. While Dave was helping, I dug frantically through my not yet unpacked stuff for a report on our assemblers prepared for me by one of the SIG members in Los Angeles. Just found same and the program you are using passed his testing just fine. ASM.BA?? right? and I assume you have the ASM.DOC that pertains. (George V.W.) yes, that's the program. I have the doc and the LDASM program that goes with it. I downloaded Xmodem, so there shouldn't be any transmission errors. I've tried assembling from tape just in case there wasn't enough available RAM for all the assoc. files, but I still get that (^%#%^%&( UNRCOVERABLE ERROR in BASIC msg. (Sysop .^Dave^.) Suggestion George: Prepare a message offline detailing the problems and leave it on the message board to All 72176,2507 That will get it to author if still around and also to the many helpers around here. (John R) The only other thing that I would suggest is to try to assemble pieces of your program separately. It is possible that either your program is overflowing memory when assembling or some syntax error in it is causing the assembler to go crazy. (George V.W.) well, the assembler is supposed to provide an OV err msg, but that may be the trouble. (Sysop .^Dave^.) Hu nax?? Mortimer made magic merrily in Maryland. (Thom) (no Chinese food today, please) (Sysop Tony) And bombed udderly in Wisconsin. (John R) [The Timonium Tee-heers take turns talking] (Sysop Tony) (Good one, John!) (Rob D) For Mike Anders: Has Stanford come up with anything on fixing the problem of the DR specification table moving around in Lucid Data when deleting rows? (Sysop .^Dave^.) Good question, but Mike Anders has gawn!! (Rob D) Anybody else know? [defening silence] (Sysop .^Dave^.) Best ask if my enchiladas are hot; I'm not Lucid. (DaveW.) [Not a Lucidite.] (Sysop Tony) (That's Troglodite!) (Rob D) ok thanks..will send a message to Mike A. later. . (Rob D) I just jumped into co.... is there really a Model 102 as recently rumored oon this SIG? (Sysop .^Dave^.) Yep, but t'ain't a FANTASTIC difference I'm told. Slimmer with better port arrangements and, supposedly, fewer bugs. (DaveW.) [Cheaper version of M100 so Tandy can make more money on it.] (Rob D) No exta ROM Slots I presume? (Sysop .^Dave^.) Not to my knowledge but I haven't seen one as yet. (Dana H.) When is this 102 due out? (Sysop .^Dave^.) best as I can understand they want to sell out the current Model 100 inventory at $399 before the Model 102 is brought out for $499 in (About July) (Sysop Tony) Dana... There has not yet been an official announcement that the M102 exists. However, it is available in some stores, today. If you really want one fast, try some of the mail order dealers. (Gary D.) Is 102 peek/poke compatible with 100 programs? (Sysop .^Dave^.) Gary, THAT won't be fully known until we get them in our hands and start REALly testing ... (Sysop Tony) Gary... That's not yet been verified But it is said to be "software compatible. (Sysop .^Dave^.) but, as Tony said, they are SUPPOSED to be software compatible but not hardware compatible. According to my ears. (Gary D.) Many thanks...yet another chang_(to keep us interested! (DaveW.) Wouldn't it be interesting if you could get a list of the ID#s that have accessed particular files in the DLs? (Sysop .^Dave^.) "Nice" mebbe but hardly worth the expenditure in disk space et cetera. Why Dave?? (DaveW.) True, but it would be nice to know sometimes who have grabbed your goodies then you could go back and ask them how its going. (Sysop .^Dave^.) Ummm humm, and also t'would make a fine mailing list for various nefarious (and unnefarious) uses. (Gerald L) To add to DaveW comments it might me helpful who had a certain dl program since it would provide the members with selfhelp., The board would do fine too, I suppouse. (Gerald L) Does the m102 have at least 32k ram if expansion is not possible? (Sysop .^Dave^.) Gerald. Iteration; we know little. Probably be just like the 100 with 29K max available. (Sysop Tony) It will be sold as 24K for $495 and an 8K addition is $15. Since the buss comes out the back, No RAM expansion internal, in the machine doubt many folks want something hanging out the back. (Gerald L) fifteen dollars extra? (DaveW.) [$15 for 8K?] (Sysop Tony) Yes, fifteen dollars!!! (Sysop .^Dave^.) Quite a change from my $999 Mortimer expanded to 32K for $149 (Sysop .^Dave^.) That is it for the day ... Glad to be back ... Thanks for coming ... All go to yak-yak mode .... Stay and enjoy ... End of conference. 1:00:32 PM EDT Sunday, June 1, 1986 User ID Nod Handle ----------- --- ------------ 70007,1176 ATJ Thom 70205,533 SCS Tom C 70250,211 LTR PETER 70466,1511 BTM Maddi 71046,653 DCI Mike W 71266,125 LBC PhilW 72156,3125 VCR NEIL A 72207,457 CUH LESTER 72217,541 QBA joshua 72256,2551 TOC Gary D. 72356,3375 PNJ Moshe Shurin 72407,3224 SYR Marty T 72527,765 NFK Dana H. 72746,1014 OKC John R 73267,2450 ALB FRED BROWN 73557,34 AUR Fred E 73765,605 NYJ LARRY L 74066,1767 PKP George V.W. 74375,474 MIA JAMES N REMICH, P.E 74425,231 NYJ Gerald L 75046,2325 SFG Jon O 75515,1757 FWY Rob D 75715,100 ATJ RICH L 75765,1124 DCQ Mike A. 75775,202 CAN DaveW. 76010,3227 TOK jim tilly 76012,3532 BAT Peter T. 76606,2266 DEQ Mark S 76703,4062 SIE Sysop Tony 76703,446 BMD Sysop .^Dave^.