GERMAN.THD --- Copyright 1987 by Phil Wheeler An original compilation of Compuserve Model 100 Forum messages for use by Forum members only. The Kyocera computers are use throughout the world, and our roster of members is evidence of that. Accessing CIS (or any computer use of the telephone services) is very much a function of where in the world you are. This file is a collection of messages focusing on CIS access from Germany. We owe Raimon Hennecke a vote of thanks for uploading this valuable information from Germany at considerable expense. Message range: 142705 to 142981 Dates: 3/8/87 to 3/12/87 Fm: Raimon Hennecke 76266,2326 To: Rich Mintz 71560,1142 (X) Please apologize the long delay answering your message, but I am very busy currently and had not very much time left to answer the various private e-mails. Also I have not that much time today. But of course I'll answer your questions re Germany. Now, not knowing what you want to hear about "living here", I'll first answer here your questions about telecommunications. In this message let's start with the prices, all in DM (currently US$1 = approx. DM 2, so simply divide the following amounts by 2 to get an idea about the costs). And because there seem to be some common interest on this, I'll answer this "public" here within the model 100 forum (or SIG?): A telephone line costs DM 65 for installation and then 27 DM monthly. But for direct connection to an US-Data-Node it's too expensive, about DM 6 per minute. A better way to go to CompuServe would be via the Packet Switching Network "Datex-P". You can reach every US-PSNetwork, like Tymnet, Telenet, CompuServe etc. directly. So the communication charges to any US based system depend, as usual in PSN, on the amount of data: the maximum is DM 2 if down/uploading 1200 baud full speed and the absolute minimum per minute without any data transfer is DM 0.31. If you're going to Datex-P via a telephone, there are additional phone charges: daytime DM 0.23 every 50 seconds, evening/weekend DM 0.23 every 75 seconds. And you need a "NUI" (Network User Identifier) which costs another DM 15 every month (one time setup fee is DM 10). As an alternative, you could lease a direct Datex-P line, which costs (for 1200 baud/asynchronous connection, via V24 connector) a one time installation fee of DM 400 and a monthly fee of DM 180. But it's worth only if you espect more than 30 minutes per day, 7 days a week, data communications. Greetings from Cologne, Germany: --Raimon-- Fm: RICH MINTZ 71560,1142 To: RAIMON HENNECKE 76266,2326 (X) Raimon: Thank you very much for your response concerning access of CIS from Germany. A Compuserve representative told me that I could access CIS through the Computer Sciences Corporation (CSC) for only a $20/hr surcharge. She gave me the number for Frankfurt ([300 baud] 069-6661081) and ([1200 baud/V22] 069-6666881). GO CSCNET lists other cities. Would this cost more or less than the procedure you spoke of? Thanks. Fm: Raimon Hennecke 76266,2326 To: RICH MINTZ 71560,1142 (X) You're right! CSCNET is really less expensive than going thru Datex-P, as I know since today, after having a closer look on it. But a major drawback is that CSCNET (at least the German Node) doesn't provide correct flow-control, that means you're losing data if you try to stop a download by a Ctrl-S (or Ctrl-A). Anyway, because this isn't a real problem if using a model 100 or any system which has a relatively big buffer (in the opposite of downloading to a disk directly, which normally needs xoff's very often) I decided to figure the various charges out - and here are the results: Most important are the telephone charges, and they depend on the distance to Frankfurt (only there is a CSC-node). In Germany we have charge units which cost DM 0.23 each. Their time limit depends on the distance: Day Eve local call 8 12 minutes per unit long distance up to 50 km 45 67.5 seconds per unit up to 100 km 20 38.5 seconds per unit above 100 km 12 38.5 seconds per unit And remember: Datex-P access 50 75 seconds per unit Now I've calculated some examples to see how the difference would be between the both Networks - Here are the results, (assuming the US$ will stay at approx. DM 1.90, which is, of course, important to the CSCNET-charges) 1 hour connection - via Datex-P - with no data (only being online) DM 29.53 - with an average of 300 baud DM 53.53 - with an average of 1200 baud DM 125.53 - via CSNET - Frankfurt area (local call) approx. DM 40.00 - more than 100km apart from Frankfurt - Evening / Weekends approx. DM 59.50 - Daytime / Primetime approx. DM 106.50 As you can see, the final decision should depend on the time and what you expect to do in CompuServe - unless you're living in Frankfurt, where CSCNET would nearly always the better choice. Fm: RICH MINTZ 71560,1142 To: RAIMON HENNECKE 76266,2326 (X) Raimon: Again, I am forever in you debt for providing me with this very specialized information about telecommunications in West Germany. I have hit another stumbling block in my plan to reach CIS from there. A Compuserve representative told me that the different overseas nodes to access the system support the local country's modem frequencies and not the standard (for us) Bell System 103 type modem. This shoots down my hopes of being "portable" and using the acoustic modem I just built for my NEC 8201A. How do you call with your Model 100, or do you? So I have to buy a German modem... How much would one with the bare necessities of modulation and demodulation cost approximently? Do they work with a standard RS232 serial interface? I don't suppose that any of you electronic hobbyists out there know of a simple circuit(s) to adjust the in and out frequencies of my modem to (and from) those used in Germany (whatever they may be). Is the difference in Bell and German modems only the FREQUENCIES used or do the differences also involve parity, stop, word length, etc? Also, at the risk of bringing unrelated subject matter into the forum: Fm: Raimon Hennecke 76266,2326 To: RICH MINTZ 71560,1142 (X) You're right, at 300bd we have a different standard, the so called "CCITT", here in Europe. There are ways to get the built-in modem in a US-Model100 to work here. But it needs a hardware-fix. As far as I know, the 102's modem can be operated directly in BELL or CCITT mode - but I'm not really sure. Maybe someone else reading this could confirm this, because I'm also interested in that. But back to your Computer: I think the NEC doesn't have an internal Modem at all. So, as I see it, you're already operating a stand-alone modem or acoustic coupler, as you said. Now, if you're coming to Europe, you only would have to replace it with a CCITT-coupler. There are various offered over here, at prices starting at DM 100, and of course all with an RS232-C connection (in fact, I've never seen a modem or coupler without THAT connector) A good Idea would be of course the TouchBase WorldLink-modem, which I have heard all these good things about by now. You can use it the acoustic way with the Tandy-Cups. Or direct-connected, but because it doesn't have a ZZF-approval yet, you may not use it that way over here. Interesting of course is it's portability and 1200-bd-capability. Another thing comes to my mind at the moment: Note that we have 220V 50Hz AC here in Germany... Fm: Tony Anderson 76703,4062 To: Raimon Hennecke 76266,2326 (X) The only problem being that it costs you $25 an hour, and us, only $6. That's an inordinate amount to expect you to spend offering helpful support. While we appreciate the information, surely it's costing you a bundle. Has anyone said "thanks" ... Thanks! The 102's modem is exactly the same as that in the 100. However, they did change the internal design, using different chips, and not having a technical manual for the 102, can't say if the modification is the same, or even available. Fm: Tony Anderson 76703,4062 To: RICH MINTZ 71560,1142 (X) Unfortunately, I don't travel, so can't speak from first-hand experience. I am led to believe that CCITT is used in most of the world, except the United States. And the WorldLink was designed for world travelers. I'd guess that it would cover you anywhere. And I could not even guess at either the cost or quality of communications outside the U.S. Although obviously, we do have folks calling in from other countries, regularly. See if the files ABROAD.HLP and EURFON.TIP in DL3 help any... also check CCITT.PRD in DL13. CCITT is the name of the European standards committee, which specified what the communication protocol was going to be. I'm afraid I don't know exactly what the letters stand for. I'd assume you have to dial manually anywhere else in the world, since "Touch Tone" is an AT&T convention. And since "modular jacks" are another U.S. Telephone convention, you'd probably not find any of them over there. You'll probably either have to use acoustic cups, or direct connect to the line with alligator clips. See CLIPS.HLP and CLIPS2.HLP in DL7. The internal changes in the model 100 appear to be cutting and resoldering circuit board traces, and tuning the network filters that define the communication tones. I haven't any specifics on exactly what's involved in that. Fm: RICH MINTZ 71560,1142 To: RAIMON HENNECKE & ALL 76266,2326 (X) Now, my questions about info found in ABROAD.HLP and EURFON.TIP. It says that "the modem in the model 100 will safely handle anything which almost any phone company will send down the line." WILL THE WORLDLINK 1200 FROM TOUCHBASE DO THE SAME? WHAT ABOUT THE HIGHER >RINGING< VOLTAGE? Next, dialing. When directly connected to European phone lines as described in the previously mentioned text files, WILL A MODEM'S PULSE DIALING CAPABILITY WORK IN EUROPE? (durations, etc the same?) Does changing a modem's switch from Bell to CCITT make such an adjustment if one is necesisary? The article mentions that it is impossible to ORIGINATE from certain locations in Europe because of a BEEP or click every 3 seconds for billing purposes. I experienced this in Spain, (if memory serves) unless someone calls you, you'd think you were having a confrontation with the Road-Runner! Yet, the CSC Network has many access numbers in both Madrid and Barcelona. What gives? How does one get around the BEEPS interfering with communication to the node? (a ring back set-up?) == Exactly what is Telex? What does it do? How is it accessed? Special terminal or regualar modem frequencies? Cost? == Germans: Are there many (any?) privately-run computer bulletin board systems (BBS's) in West Germany? How many per large city if any? Fm: Raimon Hennecke 76266,2326 To: RICH MINTZ 71560,1142 (X) Back to your questions: Don't worry about pulse dialing or "clicks" for billing purposes. I am on the road thru Europe very much and had never any problems with that. The only thing is that you'll find no "modular jacks" around here to simply plug your modem in. Every country has it's own connectors (if any). Private BBS's in Germany: difficult to say how many here are - there is a continuous coming and going of these systems. In Cologne (City) we have currently 24 "on line". But you may never count on them....